seans_potato_business

I changed the tyre on my bike. The bike has internal hub gears. Do I need a torque wrench to tighten the wheel into the hub correctly? I tightened it without and the wheel wouldn't turn. I've loosened the wheel while I await advice or get a torque wrench. The bike manual specifies 30 Nm for the "wheel nuts". These are the nuts holding the wheel inside the fork? There are also nuts holding the hub together.

Dan Burkhart 

Sturmey Archer calls for 28 nm torque on the axle nuts. (The ones that secure the wheel in the bike). That's quite a lot of torque, and it's more likely you would under torque than over torque.
Sturmey Archer axle nuts are notoriously soft, and easily stripped. That is actually a good thing as it makes stripping axle threads unlikely.
If the wheel locked up as a result of tightening the axle nuts, something else is going on inside the hub.

Zef

Or the wheel is not centered in the frame and the tire is hitting the frame or something is amis with the brakes.

From the picture I would guess the hub is in need of some maintenance. If the bearing cones were loose their adjustment could have been affected when the wheel was tightened in the frame which is probably one of the possibilities that Dan Burkhart is refering to above.

Using a torque wrench will most likely have zero impact on your problem...but they are handy to have around.

-j

cny-bikeman

I would suggest some in-person help - should not be too much a challenge for a friend with some bike knowledge, or seek out a co-op or helpful shop - even if you have to pay to set it right should not be too much.

Homebrew01

Quite possible, and the cheapest & simplest thing to check.
It often take a little "finageling" to get the wheel positioned in just the right spot as you tighten, so that it is not touching anything and is reasonably centered.

FYI, for clarification, the "fork" is where the front wheel mounts. The "rear triangle" is where the back wheel mounts. The actual little metal parts of the fork or frame that the nuts touch are the "front dropouts" or "rear driopouts"

seans_potato_business

Thanks for the advice and terminology.

I've removed the wheel from the frame (it wasn't hitting the frame). I can't rotate the sprocket in either direction (I expect to be able to rotate it in one direction). I'm gonna have to take it to a shop and I'm not going to be able to roll it on the rear wheel. This thing is heavy.

My best guess is that when trying to attach the brake cable, the brake was engaged (the brakes are inside the hub) and stuck in that position? I don't want to take it apart because last time I was in a similar situation with another bike, I ended up damaging the hub beyond repair.

Edit: I'm now thinking that there should be no relationship between the brakes and the turning of the sprocket. This must be unrelated to the brakes.

seans_potato_business

I only got the bike to the repair shop yesterday (had to wait for a friend to have free time to take it in his car). I was called back today and told that there is a major problem with the hub and that it was either too tight in which case it could freewheel and the gears wouldn't change properly or it was too loose and the gears could change but it wouldn't freewheel (or the other way around). I was told the hub would need to be discarded and replaced. Should I try taking it elsewhere?

I know years ago, I had a problem with tightening a hub too tight or too loose. I'm not familiar with what goes on inside it though.

Zef

You should ask the shop to tell you specifically what they think is causing the problem. It is no convenient task to replace a hub in a built up wheel....it would require removal of all the spokes and new hub to be laced to the rim and then the wheel will need to be tensioned and trued. The shop will most likely recommend new spokes and if the rim is not straight once detensioned it will be frustrating difficult to near impossible to rebuild a strong wheel with properly balanced tension. In the end you may find it cheaper and quicker to just purchase a new wheel. Your rims look to be made from steel...notorious for poor braking performance when wet. Aluminum rims would offer better performance.

Your statements indicate that You don't seem to have the knowledge or penchant to explore the problems you are facing on your own so you are left to the mercy of a LBS which is probably your best course of action. The only concern I have is why are they recommending a new hub and not a new wheel?

Should you go to a different shop? get their response to the question above...if you feel what they are telling you is legit then move forward with repair, if not move on to another shop.

-j

fietsbob

Working blind.. wheel bearings bind? did you over-tighten the axle cone?

Aka, have you messed with factory adjustments?

Looks like a Drum Brake version, might the problem be on that side ..?

seans_potato_business

I didn't apply any deliberate force the axle cone. Is it possible that force was transmitted to the axle cone whilst I tried to tighten the wheel into the rear dropout?

Indeed, the brakes are drum brakes. If they were stuck on, would the sprocket not be able to continue to turn?

I don't mind repairing my bike myself, but mistakes can be expensive to correct. All this only happened while I was trying to do something as simple as change a tire! I will get clarification of the problem from my LBS and probably try taking it to another shop.

GamblerGORD53

That looks like a barn find bicycle. My guess is the inside of the hub is equally dirty/rusty/unlubed . Only a disassembly will get it working. I gather the mech guy didn't bother. Then order the needed parts from SJS cycles in England. Look up videos on YouTube. Probably a good idea to have your friend with you to take some pics while doing it. I have taken mine, XL-RD5w apart to replace parts, 30w oil the inside and waterproof grease the bearings. Before this I hadn't used or seen a SA hub apart since 1966 or so. It's worth a try before buying a new wheel.

As for the brakes, the spring should push them off at all times if the arm isn't pulled. If you take that side apart, note precisely how the stabilizer arm lines up to the flat of the axel. Tighten the other side bearing cone first, about a 1/4 turn slack.

seans_potato_business

So it is possible to buy replacement parts for the hub? The girl at the shop told me that replacement parts couldn't be bought. The bike/hub is actually only three years old. The rear rim is non-original and rusted within weeks and various other parts (cranks) rusted also, which I think is strange considering they could have used a metal/plating that wouldn't (for £600, it's not a lot to ask). It's stored indoors except when I'm at work when it's under a bike shed roof (which is more or less pointless because the wind carries the rain at sharp angles anyway).

dabac

That's all the proof you need to take your business elsewhere. It is amazingly unlikely that parts wouldn't be available. And even if the resident mechanic would be daunted by the prospect of tearing an IGH apart, there are usually complete innards to be bought, lowering the complexity of the repair (not that it's that bad to start with) considerably. A neat way to avoid relacing the wheel.

jimc101

Agree, was in my LBS a month or so back, when they were working on a SA 3 speed, they had no issues getting spares, so no reason why the OP's LBS should have any issues. Would say that SA gearing isn't very common compared to derailleur gearing, and some LBS's may not have the experience in working with them, so finding one that does may be better than continuing with the current one.

jason_h

Dumb question probably, but after you changed the tyre, did you bolt the drum brake lever to the frame on the left side to keep that part of the hub stationary? Is the brake cable hooked up to the hub in the exact same fashion?

It looks like from your pictures you might have a X-RD5(W) hub (there should be a label on your hub with the model number). Sturmey Archer's website is a great source of information on maintenance and rebuilding their hubs. Here is the link to specs and technical info on this hub:

https://www.sturmey-archer.com/produc...d/4/id/10.html

If you download and read the technical manual, you will probably end up knowing more than any repair shop employee on how to maintain and adjust this hub. The number of parts in the hub at first might seem daunting, but if you do decide to pull the hub apart, you should be okay if you pay attention to the manual and take pictures/video of your progress so that you can get it back together again. Sturmey Archer is pretty good about providing spare parts for their hubs, however, some parts can be hard to come by as they are only imported periodically in lots by various distributors.

Juha

Minor detail, but rims won't make any difference in this case as it's a drum brake hub.

--J

elcraft

Repairing the hub's internals or a complete hub internals replacement might be cheaper than a wheel rebuild with a new hub. In either case, try Vince at Colwood Wheel Works, in Sussex. There isn't anything Sturmey Archer that he isn't an expert about. I realize shipping costs may alter the equation, but it would be worth some emails, at least.
https://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/

Vince can give you prices on built up wheels, as well
Happy Hunting!