mozad655

Good explaination for the brake/lever misfit.

I've taken this bike to the shop more times than I can remember. I remember taking it immediately after I bought it (from the internet) to fix the front derailleur gear problem, and I got it back exactly in the same shape. Apparently that's just how they are. Another time I took it in to have them adjust the brakes for me and some other stuff, the next day they told me they just can't adjust it (they did the rest of the stuff I asked them too). I've had so much trouble with this bike, and it makes sence that the parts dont fit with eachother. I never thought of that.

likebike23

That's too bad that the shop can't get it going for you. If I were you, I would try another shop. The way I see it, the guys who've been looking at it are either incompetent, or they are leaving it broken in an attempt to get you to give up and buy a new bike from them.

reddog3

Everyone seems to think that linear pull (V) brakes and short pull levers are incompatible and won't work. To that I say... you just ain't tried hard enough. This is my preferred brake set-up for the rear, and I've set up many road/race bikes like this and they work great. I like the short and "positive" lever pull, and the extra leverage of the short pull lever makes single finger braking very effective. All the levers I use are the "cross" type because they pull cable (or push the housing) from either direction, making them compatible with tt/bullhorn bars with bar end shifters mounted.

I will say that the setup works better with some V-brake types/brands than others. You need to be able to swap the pad mounting washers around so the arms are parallel while still providing pad to rim clearance.

The more narrow the rim is, the better luck you'll have getting them set up properly. It helps a bunch to run thinline pads. Then there's the return spring/centering mechanism thing. Some of the brakes with a wound spring are a bugger to get centered and there's no way to change spring tension except with the "centering screws. With the linear springs you can stretch the springs to increase tension and center. The only "wound spring" brake mechanism that really works are on Pauls.

I use any cheap and light cross/interrupter lever. My preference for calipers are Pauls, Gussets, and CC Direct Curve. Paul makes a cross lever that is compatible with short or long pull brakes, but I don't use them. They aren't cheap and I prefer a short pull lever anyways so no need.

With this setup pad to rim clearance is close so centering is important. Minimal clearance is fine with me because of the "shorter" lever pull. It does require that the rims be true, but why wouldn't they be? Since I build my own I have the option of wider stud spacing which helps lots.

Long story- short? Short pull levers and LP brakes work, and provide one of the lightest and most effective brake setups available, with very little future adjustments necessary.

joejack951

Given your inexperience with brakes, I'm not sure I trust you to know what "abnormal pressure" is for a front shift. Rear shifts take far less effort than front and also can be accomplished under much higher pedal pressure than front shifts. If you don't know how to properly shift (and if that problem is exacerbated by an improperly adjusted front derailler) I can see how you'd come to the conclusion that you have. But, don't assume that conclusion is correct.

mozad655

Your right, i'm not experienced at all when it comse to bicycle mechanics.

But I do know that this is not my first bikes. I've had other bikes before, but I've never had to press that hard to switch chain rings. By abnormal pressure, I mean enough for a person to now bother shifting. It's almost uncomfortable and just doesn't sound "healthy" for the bike. But really, the bike is just BAD. From top to bottom. I was stupid enough to not look for customer reviews when I bought it. The parts just dont fit, and have never. Take the tires and wheels, wheel is 13mm inside, preinstalled tire was 35mm.

joejack951

This could be an adjustment issue and/or bad shifting habits. Tough to say without looking at it but I'm highly doubtful that it can't be easily corrected with some simple adjustments and/or some advice on how to shift properly (mainly easing up on the pedals until the shift has completed).

While 35mm is starting to get pretty wide for a 13mm wide interior rim, it's not off-the-charts bad. Were you able to inflate the tires to a pressure that worked for you? If so, no harm, no foul on the tire size. I've run 35mm tires on 15mm interior width Mavic Open Pros without issue.

mozad655

As I said, it's not due to lack/bad adjustment as I had it done professionally at a bike shop. I've also tried afterwards to adjust it many times myself, reading sheldon or watching videos when in doubt. The instructions are clear but they dont fix the problem.

I really dont think it's due to bad shifting habits. I might not be an experienced bike mechanic but i'm very experienced when it comes to cycling. Done it all my life, commuted daily since I was a child, worked as a cycle courior for some years. I know how to shift gears, and i've never had a problem with any other bike. If it was due to bad habit on my part this problem would be seen on other bikes too, but that is not the case.

I was able to inflate the tyres to a pressure that worked, but the tyres were always bumpy. Closed my eyes and I'd swear I was riding a horse.. I dont know, according to the scale on sheldon under the tire article, 13mm is way too small for 35mm, and in my short experience that is the case.

Andrew R Stewart 

Our experience is at odds. The, maybe dozen or two, minis that I have serviced all seem to have the same nature. It's like their cable pull needs are between full sized Vs and cantis. A high degree of care in set up, wheel true maintenance and continued cable tension has been needed to keep the pad rim/lever pull balance as the miles add up.

IMO the reason minis were "invented" was to satisfy the need to look like (associate with) V brakes BUT be able to use levers that were never intended to be compatible. If minis actually gave better performance then cantis I know many riders that would be on that wagon in a second (including me). But while the mass market is easily swayed and led down blind alleys, in time the truth rises to the surface. That so few companies spec them with the road levers, to me, reinforces my view.

So to answer your question the poor part of the mini's design is that they just don't stand up to the test of the real riding public. Andy.

RubeRad

+1. If you took this bike to a shop complaining of brakes not working like you want, and they didn't immediately diagnose "V-brakes with short-pull levers", then you need a new shop.

A possibly less costly alternative; pay about $30 for a set of Tektro CR720 cantilever brakes on eBay. They should fit on the same bosses that your V-brakes are installed on, and they accept the short cable pull that your levers provide. Then you can sell the V-brakes as nearly new and hopefully come out OK on $$.

For instance, this guy gives a break for combined shipping, so you'd be a little over $30 for front & rear.

FastJake

Frankly I would find someone that is competent at fixing bikes and have them help you. It can be a shop or a friend. The shop you have been going to sounds completely worthless. You have fit issues if you "never ride in the drops" because they're "uncomfortable." Sounds like there are a number of other issues as well, either real or imagined. Too much, IMHO, for us to help over the internet. Someone needs to physically inspect the bike.

Where are you located?

joejack951

There are three options then:

1. You and your mechanic are both adjusting things incorrectly.
2. There is a mechanical fault in the system.
3. You are shifting improperly.

Have you tried another, similarly equipped known-good bike to eliminate/confirm any of the above?

Kids bike rarely have front deraillers and for good reason. As a courier, did you ride a fully geared bike or a singlespeed like most others? Regardless, sometimes bad habits go unnoticed for a long time because there is some other factor masking the habit. You claim to have not needed to shift up front for two years on this bike. How often did you shift up front on your other bikes?

I'm not trying to pick on you, by the way. It's just such a common problem I've encountered that I have a hard time believing, based on your description, that there's something else going on.

Sheldon's chart is admittedly (read the text by the chart) quite conservative. As I said, I and many other have run 35mm tires on Open Pro rims which are barely wider than your rims. If you were experiencing bumpiness, did you check that the tire bead was evenly seated all around the rim? That would be the most likely cause and could happen with any tire width on any rim.

mozad655

I took it to the shop when the old brakes were on the bike (the mini V's), and they were unable to adjust it. The adjusting screws would not grab.

mozad655

The shop is actually good, I think you guys have misunderstood me on that. I've had them adjust my gears, and my brakes. They adjusted the gears so rear shifting became smooth and perfect, but the front shifting did not change. That's just how it is, and for me that was never good enough so I stopped using the front shifter.

About fitting, I've seen some videos on it and to be honest, its not exactly rocket science. Looking up at that angle just makes my neck muscles work too hard. The angle between the horizon and drop bar is too big regardless of sadde position and how the handlebars are fitted. The pressure on my wrist is also constant. The only thing that helped a bit was turning the bicycle stem upside down.

mozad655

The odds of both I and my mechanic adjusting things incorrectly, is too slim for me to take serious. As I said, adjusting gears and brakes is not rocket science and there are clear instructions on it all over the internet. But just to be sure I had the shop try, and they found the exact same problems in adjusting the front deraliuer and brakes as I did. Something is wrong with both, I'm sure there's a mechanical fault somewhere, or parts not fitting.

I've tried front shifting on other bikes, and I've never experienced such heavy shifting as on this bike.

Regarding the tire issue, yes. Back then I checked alot and finally gave up on it and got used to riding with a bumpy tire. Recently I bought some new tires and rim tape, got the rims trued, and wanted to fix the problem once and for all. Unfortunately despite literally days of struggle with the tire, I still coudn't manage to remove the hollow that creates the bumpiness. I tried soap and water, roling the tyre, overinflation. Everything, yet nothing solved the issue. The rim dimension seems off, or the edges of the rim that are supposed to grab the tire are perhaps not outlined enough.

mozad655

But thank you all for the help and thoughts given. As I've already just bought these V-brakes i'm probably buying the converters (and perhaps a new bike?)

Wilfred Laurier

please dont take offence to this
as i really dont mean it as an insult

but seeing as neither you nor your mechanic
knew about the brake and lever mismatch
which has been a fairly well known compatibility issue
for the past seventeen or eighteen years

and the fact that you are struggling so hard to get a tire mounted straight

indicate to me
that a third set of eyes on the problems might be worthwhile

FastJake

+1

You're having issues with things that are REALLY simple for a competent mechanic to fix. You said it yourself, it's not rocket science.

If it hurts your neck to look up, the bars need to be higher and/or closer to you. If this is not possible due to the fork's steerer tube being too short, you can get a stem/steerer tube extender. Otherwise, the bike itself simply does not fit you or is a racing style bike not suited for your riding style.

mozad655

Point is, the shop did not oversee the mismatch of full size v-brakes and drop levers, as these were not installed at the time. The bike was in when the old mini-V brakes were on (which also coudn't be adjusted because the adjusting screws would not grab). But let me get this right, are you saying that mini-V brakes and drop levers are also a mismatch? If so, then yes the shop never told me about that.

Yes a third set of eyes would help perhaps, but I'm too much in doubt after all my effort to wanna risk paying for that. I really think the wheels are poorely made. I'll be buying a new bike, and use this one for the heavy winter. I'll install some tires on the new one, I think that will show if the problem was the wheel or me all along.

mozad655

I have adjusted the handlebar back and forth many times, and the seat also. The difference is too little to notice for me. In all cases, I end up having to bend my back enough for my neck to feel tension, and I dont like that. The only thing that helped a bit was turning the stem upside down, but still too uncomfortable for the drop bars.

I dont know if the fork tube is too short, it migh be. You can look at the picture of the bike if you want.

I think your right in that the racing style is not suited for my riding style. Good thing I got the top of the bars and mini levers. I'm pretty comfortable in that position, I just need to get the brake issue settled and I'm off again.

catonec 

There is no such thing as a cursed bike. only an incorrectly adjusted, equipped, or assembled one.

instead of arguing with the people that you asked for help from how about listening to them and trying what they suggest.

the Proper V brake lever mentioned in post 5 is less than $20 and will probably fix your issue.

Front shifters for road bikes have a much different feel than mountian bike shifters. the deraileur also needs to be set up correctly or else the shifter will not function.

Utube is your friend. any of the issues you are having have most likely been video documented there as well as how to fix it.

im sure your going to fire back at me w/ some long winded bs but if you just take a few moments to try to learn how something works im sure you'll be able to figure it out. work towards a solution not an excuse.

ask questions, get possible answers, try whats suggested by those who know more than you do.

good luck.

Wilfred Laurier

oops
no
mini vs are compatible with road brake levers

there are certain tire and rim combos that are hard to mount
but i have never seen any that were impossible

the thing about bikes
is that all brands use parts made by the same manufacturers

your assertion that everything that has been impossible for you to adjust
is due to faulty equipment
is far far less likely than both you and your mechanic overlooking something

for instance
a shimano tiagra shifter
mated to a shimano tiagra derailleur
is probably the least likely cause of the problem

probably a mistake with cable routing
or derailleur position
or something else that is not caused by faulty equipment
but with set up

as for the brakes
you went from a damaged or faulty set of mini v brakes
to a set of incompatible full size v brakes
and this is not the fault of the bike

mozad655

What an arrogant comment. I know it's not "CURSED". Dont take every word seriously. What I mean by that is that many of the parts are either low quality, or misfits (as confirmed by others in here). Some parts have broken, and some do not function properly.

I'm not arguing with anyone but you. I'm responding to the comments and misunderstandings and questions asked. When someone brings a solution, it's my responsibility to say if I already tried or not. This is not arguing. It's natural that many of the things suggested are already things that I have tried, and I had to make that clear in order to make room for other suggestions. It's not like I came on here without trying anything myself or having the shop a go at it. Whats up with your negativity? Instead of jumping in out of nowhere and accusing me of not listening to people, read the previous posts. I have made clear that the problem has been solved. As suggested by someone I bought a set of converters so that I can use the full size V-brakes with drop levers. End of story.

I have heard of youtube, and as I said before I've made great use of this with all issues such as basic adjusting. No need to remind me of something I know and have mentioned in previous posts. Unfortunately youtube has basic guides for ideal circumstances only. My bike is not ideal as there are misfits, and low quality parts.

Next time, before you jump into a threat 2 pages in to the story, read the previous posts instead of making arrogant conjectures. It's very arrogant of you. Drink some tea..

mozad655

The tires are not impossible to install, but they are so difficult that you can't bother after endless tries and sore finger tips. The bumpiness is always there, with some tires not so much with others more.

I dont know if my parts, say for instance old brakes, were faulty or just low quality. What I do know that after a year they needed to be adjusted. I took it to the shop and they coudn't do it as they explained that the adjusting screws would not grab inside the hole. This can only be due to either faulty brakes, or low quality material. Either case, it was the bike that there was something wrong with. Not that rare afterall.

As for the front shifting goes, it was not due to bad adjusting as over the course of 2 years I had tried myself and had different bike shops have a go at it. Every time, they came back the same. Now I'm not saying they were mechanically faulty, all I know is that they were really rough. That's just how they were, even after countless efforts at adjusting and fiddling by proffesional bike mechanics.

A faulty set of preinstalled brakes is not the "bikes" fault? dont see the logic in this. Surely the brakes are a part of the bike, and faulty/low quality preinstalled brakes would make it a bad bike (if not changed). A good bike has good brakes.

mozad655

No need to further comment. As said before, the problem has been solved. The solution was buying a set of converters. End of story. Enjoy your day.