Zach_Stone

So. I am going to 11 speed but I want a wider range cassette than campy offers. IRD makes an 11-30 but its super expensive. Given that the spacing is the same on Shimano/Campy 11s I am leaning towards a 11-32 Ultegra 6800 cassette with in the back and new 11s rings on my 53/39 crank up front. Before people say "get a triple" or "get a compact" I am trying to save money and maintain my bike's aesthetics by sticking with my older record crank. So my question is this. I have heard that both short cage Athena and the longer Athena triple RD's can clear a 32 cog but that the chain wrap on the normal double (short) Athena derailleaur is a bit tight when running a wide cassette. Anyone have any experiance with this? fwiw the bike is a 61cm Bottecchia professional with classic race geometry.

linus

Before you get to the RD, do you have aCampy freehub body or Shimano? If Shimano, do you have the new 11sp freehub body?

Zach_Stone

I have campy 8s now so I am building a new wheelset regardless. And I want to be able to use the wheelset (with a cassette swap) for my 10s cross bike.

linus

You need to stick with Campy. You can't fit Shimano cass. on your wheels unless you want to spend $$$ to swap freehub body.

zacster

You won't be saving money by going 11sp. I gag whenever I see prices of Campy 11sp vs. 10sp, and 10sp is expensive enough.

Zach_Stone

No, I am putting a shimano cassette on a shimano hub. The spacing for 11s cogs is the same on campy/shimano 11s so campy shifters and campy RDs shift fine on shimano cassettes. Right now I have 8s campy record with the old 8s hubs that nothing else fits on anyhow, so any upgrade involves new wheels.

Zach_Stone

Not buying a new crank, bb, and brakeset saves c. $350 vs a complete new groupset. Incl. the wheels I get to 11s for less than $600.

Nobody seems to know the answere to the real question I asked.

Drew Eckhardt 

Nope. I replaced my 1996 Chorus freehubs with 9/10 speed units after Campagnolo discontinued my favorite 8 speed cassette.

linus

No they are not. They just work because difference in spacing is very small.

Drew Eckhardt 

Campagnolo on the left, Shimano on the right.

Gdogpdx

I agree with Linus - don't make it difficult, and do it properly. The drivetrain should be all Campy. Get the compact Athena crank and the 12-29 and you'll be happy. Trust me.

Zach_Stone

Nobody has given a reason why not to mix yet...every single report i've read of people running 11s shimano/sram with 11s campy has been positive. Lennard Zinn has covered it ad nausem. I just want to know how big a cassette one can use with Athena RDs, single and triple. Aside from saving money by not buying a new crank/bb this lets me use my road wheels on my cross and commuter bikes if need be with just a quick cassette/tire change, as both those run shimano drive trains. The set up I hope to do gives me the range of a triple for $450+wheels, which I was planning on uprgrading anyhow as I have the really old, c. 1992 I think, 8s hubs and the wheels are super heavy. Seven Cycles has had good success making a 50-34 x 11-36 SRampagnolo drive train via Jtek adapter and an X-9 RD but I want to avoid using an adapter am pretty confident that 39x32 will be fine on all the hills I ride normally.

well biked

Drew, you post a lot of useful stuff relating to Campy.

In regard to the picture, I have two confessions to make: #1 : I've never tried an 11 speed Shimano cassette with an 11 speed Campy drivetrain, or vice versa. #2 : I've stared at the picture and my visual perception isn't precise enough to tell if it's a really, really good match. I mean, obviously it's very close.....but if it were me, and I were setting up an eleven speed drivetrain, I'd want it better than very close.

So, what's the verdict, in your opinion and/or experience? Does it work well together? This is a subject I've not really thought about before, but it's intriguing. Thanks-

Zach_Stone

Zinn on compatibility.

well biked

No offense to Zinn, but my brief reading of his stuff seems to indicate that as far as he's concerned, there's hardly anything that doesn't work well together.....10 speed Campy with a BMX chain? Works perfect. j/k on that one........On this 11 speed Campy/Shimano issue, I have no idea, that's why I'm asking. I find it interesting, and the pic Drew posted certainly has me wondering.

I do hope Drew Eckhardt gives us his take on it.

Chris_W

I agree that Shimano and Campy cog spacing for the 11-speed cassettes is as close as to not worry about the difference - they are effectively interchangeable. This has been verified by Zinn, several other reliable sources, and my own experience.

Regarding wanting to go with this gearing combo to "maintain my bike's aesthetics" then have you seen the size of the 11-32 cassette? I just assembled a new bike with one of those yesterday, and the size of that cassette on a road bike is really quite striking. You may be able to keep a racy-looking standard crankset, but at the expense at having a dinner plate on your rear wheel. Personally, I would get a compact crank and a more normal-sized cassette.

Drew Eckhardt 

I'd get a triple and one tooth jumps through the 19 cog where the Campagnolo 14-23 10 cog straight block has the best aesthetics and 12-23 10 cogs or 11-23 11 come close with just a little bulge at the big end.

For the same low gear the compact is only good for about one cog smaller (34x23 is like 39x26) and 34x28 isn't too much better looking than 39x32. Functionally the compact also gives up two gears on the high-end which makes a huge difference in how long you can stay on the small ring (34x13 as the fist usable small ring gear with a 12 starting cog is like 39x15) and shift frequency when running a tight cassette.

A short cage is actually in-spec for wrap on my current 50-39-30 and 14-23 10 speed straight block combination (While I upgraded to NOS 2010 Centaur Carbon Ultrashift levers, I passed on the move to 11 cogs) which provides a low like 39x30 although the long is right for 50-39-26x13-26 for mountains with middle-age spread and I'll take the functionality over the looks.




For range like 53-39x11-32 you'd want the same medium cage derailleur it requires to go with 53-39-28 x 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 which will obviously be a lot nicer for rides with flat stretches than 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32.

2002-2006 Record triple cranks (still available NOS for not immodest prices) don't quite match the aesthetics of C-Record doubles but far exceed a lot of modern parts like the Shimano standard cranks which resemble dead octopuses.

fietsbob

Campag is abouty Road Racing , they gave up on the MTB sector 20 years ago

32t is MTB stuff , Campag tops out at 29t..

I have a Campag triple as shown above 3rd ring is a 74 bcd, so low can drop to 24t, there..

TA sells premium 74 BCD chainrings , in 24 & 26T

I like granny gears with about half the teeth count as the Big ring [50..24,52..26]

Drew Eckhardt 

While I've paid attention to what's going on with 11 cogs and noted the technical tidbits (you can grind the rear derailleur clamp bolt to convert a 10 speed derailleur to the 11 speed actuation ratio) which will eventually become relevant (I moved to 9 cogs when Campagnolo discontinued my favorite 8 cog unit with a freehub and small parts change, then 10 after breaking a discontinued shifter spring) I passed on making the move personally because it didn't offer me any benefits and would complicate things.

If I was hung up on having a double crank I'd go for it. 46-36 x 12-25 11 cogs matches the range, matches the spacing, and comes close to the shift frequency of 50-40-30 x 13-21 8 cogs.

If NOS 10 speed Ultrashift levers were no longer available for reasonable prices when I moved from 9 cogs and I didn't have 26x1mm threaded freehubs (the 11 speed lock rings only come in 27x1mm and I have no clue how important the extra thread length is) I'd have bought 11 cogs for price and convenience reasons. $100 for a cassette is a painful threshold psychologically, but inconsequential as a per-mile cost compared to nice $40 tires that last 2500 miles in back after spending 2500 miles up front which is $80/5000 miles total.

Otherwise... 10 speed 12-23, 13-26, 14-23 all have one tooth jumps to the 19 cog. With a triple crank middle x small has about the same chainline as small x second on a double. 30x23 is like 39x30 or 34x26 without the frequent double shifting the compact implies. 26x26 is a very low gear like a non-existent 39x39 or 34x34 which doesn't work like a straight block, and 39->26 is the same sort of jump between 50->34 which while not ideal is manageable and fine when the hills get steep in spite of 40 pounds of middle-age spread.

well biked

Thanks. We've got some bikes in our shop with 11 speed Ultegra on them now, but no new Campy equipped (11 speed) bikes at the moment. Eventually, inevitably, we'll have both Shimano 11 and Campy 11 in the shop....I might do some swapping of wheels and see how well it works.

JeanDauper

11 speed triple is the power torque. This the poorer of technology.

Manfacture SRAM make 32t with WiFli and is road. Yes and Campa have 10speed Centaur 13-29. BBB stop at the 27 but BBB has wonderful cassette, 11 speed 16-27.

I see you use Shimano 11-32, Athena 11 speed and Chorus 11 speed rear derailleurs agree with 30 very fairly and no problem I imagine for 32. Good solution for you with Shimano.