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-   -   Project - 1980 Nishiki Sport (http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/923773-project-1980-nishiki-sport.html)

HillRider 03-28-14 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16620365)
Can't find the post anymore, but someone here suggested it was actually quite common for manufacturers of steel bikes to alter their bikes' "size" by changing the height of the steering head and seat tube only, while keeping the top tube dimension the same. A way to reduce production costs, I suppose. In other words, a 50, 54 and 58 cm bike would all have the same horizontal length. Can't verify it; maybe someone else here can. But if that's true, then your "99+ bikes out of 100" statement is suspect. Your other statement - that I got lucky - is true either way. :-) Thanks.

We discussed this point earlier in this thread and it's not correct. Almost all of the bikes I looked at when I was first considering a "good" bike in the mid-1980's had their top tubes proportional to the nominal frame size, even down to their entry level bikes. You frame is the only "one size fits all" I've ever seen.

Duane Behrens 03-29-14 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HillRider (Post 16620953)
We discussed this point earlier in this thread and it's not correct. Almost all of the bikes I looked at when I was first considering a "good" bike in the mid-1980's had their top tubes proportional to the nominal frame size, even down to their entry level bikes. [Your Nishiki] frame is the only "one size fits all" I've ever seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HillRider (Post 16620953)
We discussed this point earlier in this thread and it's not correct. Almost all of the bikes I looked at when I was first considering a "good" bike in the mid-1980's had their top tubes proportional to the nominal frame size, even down to their entry level bikes. You frame is the only "one size fits all" I've ever seen.


Austro-Daimler (Puch)
"An attempt by a large diversified European company to create a prestige marque in the bicycle world. They did a pretty darn good job of it too! There were some glitches, such as a full size range of bikes all sporting the same length top tube. . ." -Sheldon Brown

Trying to agree with you, I suspect such bikes (identical top tubes but different seat and head tube lengths) are rarer than the other poster believed. But they do exist, apparently. Good for me as it turns out. Bad for any short person who bought a new '80 Nishiki! I really can't see a 5'3" man or woman ever getting comfortable on this thing; they'd be laid out on it just trying to reach the brakes . . . DB

MikeWMass 03-29-14 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16619166)
Your comment is inaccurate. The extension on the quill stem and seat are not extraordinary, they're well within their design limits. So the answer to your question is "no."

I was one of the original naysayers. I was not and am not a hater. I ride an old bike, and even my "new" bike would be considered old by many on this forum. I am glad you like your bike. However, I still stand by my original statements that if you are going to put time and money into restoring an old bike, you might as well start with an appropriate one. You have a long stem and a long seatpost and the geometry works for you. When that bike was new, more than "a handful" of seatpost showing was considered excessive, and stems much more than 110 mm were long. You can make the bike fit, I am glad you like and enjoy it. I am (TRULY!) not criticizing you. I am just saying that, in 1980, that bike is not what you should have bought.

Duane Behrens 03-29-14 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWMass (Post 16623753)
I was one of the original naysayers. I was not and am not a hater. I ride an old bike, and even my "new" bike would be considered old by many on this forum. I am glad you like your bike. However, I still stand by my original statements that if you are going to put time and money into restoring an old bike, you might as well start with an appropriate one. You have a long stem and a long seatpost and the geometry works for you. When that bike was new, more than "a handful" of seatpost showing was considered excessive, and stems much more than 110 mm were long. You can make the bike fit, I am glad you like and enjoy it. I am (TRULY!) not criticizing you. I am just saying that, in 1980, that bike is not what you should have bought.


:-) Okay. I sure do respect your opinion. But here's the thing. For me, today, this bike feels tight, compact, and ready to burn. It just feels RIGHT, you know?

It might be the lower, longer frame. Or it might be the 38 cm bars. Maybe it's the replacement Cane Creek hoods that JCavilla suggested. (These really made the bike easier and more fun to ride.) Maybe it's all three. Whatever. Put them together with the supple steel frame and 1.25" tires and you've got a bike that is more concierge than machine.

What I know is this: My 56 cm carbon bike with its 42 cm bars and Ultegra gruppo was fit professionally for me, and I thought it was perfect for four years . . . until I finished the build on this one. If I'm not riding it, I'm looking at it.

EDIT: Mike, you also wrote: " . . . stems much more than 110 mm were long." Actually, the stem extension on the Nishiki is the original 70mm . Again, because of the long (56 cm) top tube length and by simply raising the bars a bit, it was a perfect fit; elbows slightly bent when on the top curve of the bars, near to or fully extended when riding on the hoods. The 100mm aftermarket stem I ordered for it is still in the box. I may put it on the 54 cm Schwinn, which has a shorter, 54 cm top tube. These old bikes are weird. :-)

Donnie Johnson 03-29-14 08:39 PM

I say build the bike however you wish. I feel that the value of any bike is not what it is made of or how much it costs, rather how it rides and what you use it for. If this bike is still going after 34 years chances are you get many more years of great value from it after a bit of effort and care. Without a doubt I would replace all the components with wear and tear. Spare parts are so cheap on wiggle and chain reaction that upgrading an older bike with quality components is a viable option. As an example I upgraded my old steel touring bike (at a fair guess 15 yrs old) with brand new 10 speed XT group set, Mavic A319 touring wheels, butterfly/trekking handle bars and just about everything else. The only original components on the bike was the frame, forks and seat post. Everything else was replaced brand new. The total cost of the upgrade came to about $750. I consider this to be extremely cheap when compared to purchasing a brand new touring bike to a similar spec. I wouldn't expect to get much change form $2000 for something in the same category and range as my old steel bike. I imagine my old steel bike in its current condition will outlast just about every high spec carbon bike being purchased today. Since the build I have ridden across Russia on the bike and use it as a day to day commuter. I have put about 3000 km on it since the build about a year ago and the bike never misses a beat. For me it is money well spent.

As for the paint job, I would look for a local powder coating company and ask them to sand blast the frame then powder coat the frame. This would not be the cheapest method however you will get a far better end product. Then reassemble yourself, if you run into trouble take it to your LBS.
Once it is pulled apart it; inspect the frame, particularly around the bottom bracket, carefully for any cracks. If there are any cracks then the frame is probably at the end of its life.

Good luck with the build.

Donnie

Kopsis 03-30-14 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWMass (Post 16623753)
However, I still stand by my original statements that if you are going to put time and money into restoring an old bike, you might as well start with an appropriate one.

In some parts of the country, that's easier said than done. Here in the Tampa Bay area, high-end vintage bikes in "restorable" condition are extremely rare. When one does surface (especially in large or small sizes), its usually priced so high (even after haggling) that it would be significantly cheaper to buy one already restored. For someone who just wants to have a "fun" project (and isn't looking for financial ROI), the low-end models from quality vintage brands can be a good starting point that limits your overall investment and still results in a fun recreational bike.

Krull06 03-30-14 04:57 AM

That yellow paint is gorgeous. I love the ride feel of old steel 10 speeds with 27 x 1 1/4 tires.

Duane Behrens 03-30-14 08:44 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Me too. Cane Creek hoods are on. They really improve the way the bike feels, especially while climbing. (The red bar tape is temporary - I'll replace it when I replace the seat.) I think all that's left is to move the shifters to the downtube, after which I'll just ride it. Thanks.

HillRider 03-30-14 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16625150)
I think all that's left is to move the shifters to the downtube, after which I'll just ride it.

This thread is so long I've forgotten if you located suitable clamp-on dt shifters or an adapter to use braze-on dt shift levers. Anyway, Loose Screws is running a closeout on these:

Shimano 105 Clamp-on Friction Downtube Shifters Shifter Road Shifters Complete Friction

At $50 they aren't cheap but they certainly are elegant.

Duane Behrens 03-31-14 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie Johnson (Post 16624199)
I say build the bike however you wish. I feel that the value of any bike is not what it is made of or how much it costs, rather how it rides and what you use it for. If this bike is still going after 34 years chances are you get many more years of great value from it after a bit of effort and care. Without a doubt I would replace all the components with wear and tear. Spare parts are so cheap on wiggle and chain reaction that upgrading an older bike with quality components is a viable option. As an example I upgraded my old steel touring bike (at a fair guess 15 yrs old) with brand new 10 speed XT group set, Mavic A319 touring wheels, butterfly/trekking handle bars and just about everything else. The only original components on the bike was the frame, forks and seat post. Everything else was replaced brand new. The total cost of the upgrade came to about $750. I consider this to be extremely cheap when compared to purchasing a brand new touring bike to a similar spec. I wouldn't expect to get much change form $2000 for something in the same category and range as my old steel bike. I imagine my old steel bike in its current condition will outlast just about every high spec carbon bike being purchased today. Since the build I have ridden across Russia on the bike and use it as a day to day commuter. I have put about 3000 km on it since the build about a year ago and the bike never misses a beat. For me it is money well spent.

As for the paint job, I would look for a local powder coating company and ask them to sand blast the frame then powder coat the frame. This would not be the cheapest method however you will get a far better end product. Then reassemble yourself, if you run into trouble take it to your LBS.
Once it is pulled apart it; inspect the frame, particularly around the bottom bracket, carefully for any cracks. If there are any cracks then the frame is probably at the end of its life.

Good luck with the build.

Donnie

Thanks, Donnie; would love to see pics of your rebuild.

I'm not sure which of my posts you were responding to. The Nishiki rebuild is fairly well completed now. New powder-coat paint, all new cables and housing, all new bearings, new front derailleur. The only original parts left are the rear derailleur and the chain rings.

"Hillrider," thanks for the tip on the Shimano Clamp-ons. They certainly are attractive. In this case, I'd already ordered some Suntour Power Shifters. They're sitting in the garage, waiting to be mounted.

In a way, these projects never quite end until you sell them.

Donnie Johnson 03-31-14 02:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Good Morning Duane,

Just after I posted my reply the other day I scrolled to the top of the page only to find there were 8 pages of posts that I had not read. Pretty silly mistake but such is life. The yellow bike looks tops and I think the red bar tape is pretty cool too. Id change them to orange if it were mine.

Even to my surprise, I don't have any good clear photos of the bike so I have attached two. There not the best photos, but they show the old bike just before I loaded it onto the front of a dingy to cross the River Volga in Russia. The Russian ferry service was awesome.

Ride your yellow bike somewhere wild and crazy!

Donnie

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=371957http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=371958

Duane Behrens 04-06-14 10:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CustomSteel (Post 16458471)
Looking sharp, that's a nice setup you have there. I'm still trying to find a good place to have our bikes powder coated. I noticed talk of clearcoat, and if you don't mind I'd like to share something real quick regarding the stuff. Clearcoat paint is intended to make underlying paint look exceptionally shiny and deep, which is exactly why it is used as a standard in the automotive industry. The "wet" look helps sell cars, and clearcoat is the least expensive and easiest solution to achieve this effect. Wet sanding and buffing is actually the proper way to give depth and shine to paint, but this is very time consuming. Clear topcoats are more susceptible to UV light and ozone, which both degrade the clear paint on a molecular level causing it to discolor and/or lift and peel. The most useful application of clearcoat is in circumstances where you have multi-tone paint jobs or decals that you want to have a seamless transition over the surface, ie smooth to the touch when you run your hand over it. This really isn't necessary unless you need a show-quality finish on a custom paint job.

You have a great solid bike there. I understand people out there may feel it's a waste of time and money because it does not have a high market value, but the market value doesn't have anything to do with it being a good bike or not. It's fickle stuff and in the end it's really just stupid. If you plan on keeping this bike, then your time and the quality work put into it will always be a good investment. On a side note, this would be a really solid frame for a touring bike if you are/were ever interested in that. I wouldn't mind riding my Peugeot P8 with you, although it admittedly wouldn't be as in nice of shape as your bike.

Have been reviewing and enjoying some of these old posts and came across yours. Encouragement from you, JJ and others here kept me believing. And in the end, it has become my favorite daily rider. Compact. Comfortable. New brake hoods and downtube shifters have made it perfect for me. And I very much look forward to a ride with you and your P8. Best. DB

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373258

CustomSteel 04-07-14 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16648231)
Have been reviewing and enjoying some of these old posts and came across yours. Encouragement from you, JJ and others here kept me believing. And in the end, it has become my favorite daily rider. Compact. Comfortable. New brake hoods and downtube shifters have made it perfect for me. And I very much look forward to a ride with you and your P8. Best. DB

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373258

Looking sharp! I'm certainly glad that I've had a positive influence here. I really enjoy seeing people take on and finish projects like this. I've been slowly working on the P8. I had some trouble with removing the fixed cup for the bottom bracket, a very odd situation that did not involve rust. I also bought a period correct crankset for it, as the original one is not rebuildable and used some questionable construction techniques. I also found a small crack on one of the stays which looks like it is from the assembly process, and may simply be in the paint. Whatever the situation, I'm going to try to get it back on the road in a couple of weeks.

Duane Behrens 04-09-14 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CustomSteel (Post 16650444)
Looking sharp! I'm certainly glad that I've had a positive influence here. I really enjoy seeing people take on and finish projects like this. I've been slowly working on the P8. I had some trouble with removing the fixed cup for the bottom bracket, a very odd situation that did not involve rust. I also bought a period correct crankset for it, as the original one is not rebuildable and used some questionable construction techniques. I also found a small crack on one of the stays which looks like it is from the assembly process, and may simply be in the paint. Whatever the situation, I'm going to try to get it back on the road in a couple of weeks.

Good luck and enjoy - post pics if you can. DB

Duane Behrens 04-12-14 07:08 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is the bike with its latest upgrades: (a) Suntour DT Power Shifters to replace the original stem mounts; (b) Cane Creek brake levers and hoods to replace the original cantilever ("turkey leg") levers; (c) a new B17 Brooks saddle, and (d) matching bar tape. I like the overall look of the bike much better now, and am looking forward to finding out if the Brooks saddles are worth the hype.

Duane Behrens 04-16-14 10:40 PM

New:
paint
decals
front derailleur
brake hoods
bar tape
downtube shifters
steering head bearings
bottom bracket bearings
wheel bearings
sprocket cluster
Brooks saddle
chain
wheels, tubes and tires
brake cables and housing
shifter cables and housing

http://fcdn.roadbikereview.com/attac...i-img_0588.jpg

All for less than $500, including the paint and the new saddle. My expensive carbon bike now sits in the garage most weekdays; this is simply a more attractive, enjoyable, and comfortable daily rider / commuter.

Kimmo 04-17-14 04:07 AM

Didn't think much of it until you changed the tape and put the Brooks on it; now it looks pretty tight.

You just need a nice pair of pedals.

And stop taking pics from the wrong side! :twitchy:

MRT2 04-17-14 12:35 PM

Wow! As a former owner of a 1980 Nishiki Sport (purchased new at a lbs with some birthday and paper route money, lent to my younger brother when I left for college, sold by my Dad at a garage sale while I was studying in Europe without my permission :() I am impressed. That has to be the classiest Nishiki Sport in the country.

Duane Behrens 04-20-14 05:25 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmo (Post 16678513)
Didn't think much of it until you changed the tape and put the Brooks on it; now it looks pretty tight. You just need a nice pair of pedals. And stop taking pics from the wrong side! :twitchy:

Thanks. What sort of pedals would you suggest? I'd prefer to stay away from clip-ins. I have them on my carbon bike, but prefer the option of hopping onto this one for a quick grocery run without changing shoes.

The velocal decal on the right side is just slightly off center. Most people don't notice it, but I do. Makes me shy of posting the right side. . . . but here it is:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=375844

Duane Behrens 04-20-14 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRT2 (Post 16679881)
Wow! As a former owner of a 1980 Nishiki Sport (purchased new at a lbs with some birthday and paper route money, lent to my younger brother when I left for college, sold by my Dad at a garage sale while I was studying in Europe without my permission :() I am impressed. That has to be the classiest Nishiki Sport in the country.

Thank you! It's been a fun project, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that, because of its long top tube, I was able to make a 50 cm frame fit me. Like a glove, actually. An 80's Bianchi rider approached me at the coffee shop this morning and noted the same thing adding, "These old Nishikis with their top tubes can be fit to 6' riders pretty easy. . . . the short head tube and extended stem and seat tubes just make them look compact . . . . tough, if you know what I mean. . . . "

I did know what he meant and am the first to admit that I got very lucky with this one. I hope you'll find another Nishiki one day . . . maybe even your old bike. :-) DB

MRT2 04-20-14 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16688164)
Thanks. What sort of pedals would you suggest? I'd prefer to stay away from clip-ins. I have them on my carbon bike, but prefer the option of hopping onto this one for a quick grocery run without changing shoes.

The velocal decal on the right side is just slightly off center. Most people don't notice it, but I do. Makes me shy of posting the right side. . . . but here it is:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=375844

How about Shimano M324. Platform on one side, SPD on the other.

HillRider 04-20-14 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16688164)
Thanks. What sort of pedals would you suggest? I'd prefer to stay away from clip-ins. I have them on my carbon bike, but prefer the option of hopping onto this one for a quick grocery run without changing shoes.

Shimano makes some double sided pedals with an SPD clip on one side and flat on the other so you can use them with or without cleated shoes. The PD-A530 are the best model as they are not dreadfully heavy (claimed 383 gm/pair) and quite versatile. Amazon has them for $60 with free shipping so they aren't budget busters either.

Amazon.com: Shimano PD-A530 SPD Dual Platform Bike Pedal: Sports & Outdoors

MRT2 04-20-14 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16688172)
Thank you! It's been a fun project, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that, because of its long top tube, I was able to make a 50 cm frame fit me. Like a glove, actually. An 80's Bianchi rider approached me at the coffee shop this morning and noted the same thing adding, "These old Nishikis with their top tubes can be fit to 6' riders pretty easy. . . . the short head tube and extended stem and seat tubes just make them look compact . . . . tough, if you know what I mean. . . . "

I did know what he meant and am the first to admit that I got very lucky with this one. I hope you'll find another Nishiki one day . . . maybe even your old bike. :-) DB

You never know, though I went through my C & V phase a few years back when I bought a 1984 Schwinn LeTour Luxe. Columbus Tenax frame. Nice riding bike, though I never got dialed in on it fit wise or saddle wise. Rode it for a few years before sending it to its next home. No regrets.

Kopsis 04-21-14 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Behrens (Post 16688164)
Thanks. What sort of pedals would you suggest? I'd prefer to stay away from clip-ins. I have them on my carbon bike, but prefer the option of hopping onto this one for a quick grocery run without changing shoes.

It's nice to have a bike you can ride in anything from boots to flip-flops :) The hybrid platform/clipless pedals work well for that but they all use SPD cleats. So unless you already have MTB shoes, you'd need new shoes to take advantage of them.

If you're comfortable riding platforms, I say just keep 'em. My vintage-MTB-turned-commuter has platforms and they're great for the kind of riding I do on it. If you really want to do faster rides (without simply swapping pedals with your CF bike), perhaps a set of toe clips and straps to keep the vintage look?


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