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Old 11-26-13, 09:33 AM   #1
Duane Behrens
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Project - 1980 Nishiki Sport

Found a 1980 Nishiki Sport on Craigslist, offered @ $75.00. Drove to San Bernardino yesterday to look at it. Something of a basket case cosmetically, the bottom bracket and handlebars nevertheless moved smoothly and silently. I offered him $60. He took it. (Yes, go ahead and tell me; I could have been patient and bought the same bike for $20 at a local garage sale. You're right, but I'm not a bargain hunter.)

Anyway, it's home now and I've got all the pieces off. Some interesting bits: (1) the manufacturer information ("G1080") is stamped on the rear horizontal dropout rather than on the underside of the bottom bracket; (2) the derailleur hanger is a separate piece that clamps to the dropout along with the derailleur.

I now want to get the frame painted as I assess all of the pieces I've removed, cleaning or replacing as necessary. Hopefully I can find a local shop that can strip the paint off the old frame and repaint it professionally at a fair price.

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Old 11-26-13, 10:56 AM   #2
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Don't put much money into that bike. It was a bottom-of-the-line model when new and doesn't warrant a lot of investment. The fact that it has stem shifters and a "claw" mount for the rear derailleur testify to it's status and a professional paint job will cost way more than the bike is worth.

Get it into operating condition at minimal cost and either "rattle can" paint it yourself or just touch up the paint chips to prevent rust.
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Old 11-26-13, 11:00 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Don't put much money into that bike. It was a bottom-of-the-line model when new and doesn't warrant a lot of investment. The fact that it has stem shifters and a "claw" mount for the rear derailleur testify to it's status and a professional paint job will cost way more than the bike is worth.

Get it into operating condition at minimal cost and either "rattle can" paint it yourself or just touch up the paint chips to prevent rust.
No. 1. It is not worth your time or money to have this bike repainted. Fix it up, clean it, and ride it.
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Old 11-26-13, 11:19 AM   #4
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i thought you were looking for a 56 or 58 cm frame

that thing is probably too small for you
clean it up and sell it for a hundred bucks
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Old 11-26-13, 11:36 AM   #5
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+1 , you got too small a frame to be a keeper ..

Or if you want to be a mechanic, learning skills, and feeding the young hipsters demand,

Do a Cheap single speed conversion and maybe you can flip it for a profit.
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Old 11-26-13, 03:24 PM   #6
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In my nieghborhood, that bike will go for $150 fixed up decently. A powdercoat will cost $100-$120 here. Only you can decide the economics.

I love old ten speeds. Under rated beasties.
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Old 11-26-13, 04:39 PM   #7
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Thanks, guys. I took the wheels down to the local bike shop. Neither one needed truing, but I bought 2 new tires, tubes and rim strips. I also bought a Park crank removal tool. Have never used one before, but there were directions on the back and both sides came off easily. Looks like another special wrench will be required to pull that non-drive side, notched ring off.

My goal is to build back a quality bike that I and a subsequent owner, if I choose to sell it, will enjoy. Yes, it's a bit short for me, but the 27" tires, adjustable stem and post will make it very ride-able, hopefully enjoyable. With it's horizontal top tube (modern bikes slope down to the rear), it felt pretty good straddling it in the parking lot. (I couldn't ride it; the rear tire wouldn't hold air.) We'll see; if it's too small and I have to sell it, the next owner will have a great bike to ride, and I'll have had a great time fixing it up.

New Shimano derailleurs, front and rear, will cost less than $50 for the pair, and a new chain is maybe $9. Being used to the higher-end 10-speed stuff, this was a nice surprise.
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Old 11-27-13, 08:07 AM   #8
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Does anyone know the name of the removal tool for this 7-speed freewheel sprocket cluster? Thanks.

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Last edited by Duane Behrens; 11-27-13 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Oops. It's not a "cassette," it's a "freewheel."
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Old 11-27-13, 10:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Duane Behrens View Post
Yes, it's a bit short for me, but the 27" tires, adjustable stem and post will make it very ride-able, hopefully enjoyable. With it's horizontal top tube (modern bikes slope down to the rear), it felt pretty good straddling it in the parking lot.
if you fit a 56 or 58 on a sloping top tube bike
then a 50 or 52 traditional level top tube bike
like the one you got
might be much to small

sloping top tubes make smaller measured frames
fit like larger frames
so a 58 sloping might fit like a 60 or 62 level top tube
aka a large or extra large
but the bike you bought is a traditional small or extra small


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New Shimano derailleurs, front and rear, will cost less than $50 for the pair, and a new chain is maybe $9. Being used to the higher-end 10-speed stuff, this was a nice surprise.
if the derailleurs on the bike move
do not even consider buying new ones
this would add absolutely zero function
but at 85 percent of what you originally paid for the bike

a complete list of parts that are not completely stupid to buy for this bike

tires
tubes
rim tape
cables and housing
handlebar tape
brake pads

anything else is a waste of money
especially since it is almost certainly to small for you

how tall are you anyways
if you were looking for a 56 or 58 cm bike
i would guess you are between 5 foot ten and six foot one or two
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Old 11-27-13, 12:09 PM   #10
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Does anyone know the name of the removal tool for this 7-speed freewheel sprocket cluster? Thanks.

It's a standard Shimano freewheel and the Park FR-1 or newer design FR-1.2 will work. If you get an FR-1, you will have to remove the axle to get clearance for the tool. If you get the thinner wall FW-1.2, you can leave the axle in place.
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Old 11-27-13, 08:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
if you fit a 56 or 58 on a sloping top tube bike
then a 50 or 52 traditional level top tube bike
like the one you got
might be much to small

sloping top tubes make smaller measured frames
fit like larger frames
so a 58 sloping might fit like a 60 or 62 level top tube
aka a large or extra large
but the bike you bought is a traditional small or extra small




if the derailleurs on the bike move
do not even consider buying new ones
this would add absolutely zero function
but at 85 percent of what you originally paid for the bike

a complete list of parts that are not completely stupid to buy for this bike

tires
tubes
rim tape
cables and housing
handlebar tape
brake pads

anything else is a waste of money
especially since it is almost certainly to small for you

how tall are you anyways
if you were looking for a 56 or 58 cm bike
i would guess you are between 5 foot ten and six foot one or two
I'm 5' 10" tall.

I've been amused by those here who suggest that this bike is not worth fixing. It's more than 30 years old and appears to have provided frequent, if not daily, service for a number of owners through the years.

So I'll fix it up. I'll do a careful and thorough job. I'll track the costs for parts, and if it doesn't fit me I'll sell it to one lucky buyer, hopefully for the cost of those parts, discounting my labor to zero because it's fun.

And then the NEW owner will have a "worthless" bike they can enjoy for another 30 years. :-)
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Old 11-27-13, 08:46 PM   #12
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It's a standard Shimano freewheel and the Park FR-1 or newer design FR-1.2 will work. If you get an FR-1, you will have to remove the axle to get clearance for the tool. If you get the thinner wall FW-1.2, you can leave the axle in place.
Thank you! I went down to Safety Cycle in Torrance; they had the tool in stock. It worked perfectly. I also removed the axle and was surprised to first hear and then see a couple of bearings fall out. :-) So I cleaned and reinstalled them in a new bed of grease. Kind of a pain in the ass setting them into that first race and keeping them in place as I slide the axle back in. But I think I've got it. Thanks again. DB
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Old 11-27-13, 08:51 PM   #13
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The point is not whether you can fix it up so it can be ridden for 30 years. The point is that when you are buying bikes of that era, the price difference between a nice bike and a bottom of the line bike is not much (not talking about really top of the line bikes), and the cost to fix them up is the same. When your bike was brand new it was not so great. If you are going to put that much time and money into it, you might as well do it with something that will be really nice when you finish. You may in fact be able to sell it for what you put into it, but when your buyer posts about the bike he or she just bought, they will be told they could have done much better for the price.
As for the size, bikes of that era were typically not ridden with more than a hand width of seat post showing.
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Old 11-27-13, 10:45 PM   #14
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The point is not whether you can fix it up so it can be ridden for 30 years. The point is that when you are buying bikes of that era, the price difference between a nice bike and a bottom of the line bike is not much (not talking about really top of the line bikes), and the cost to fix them up is the same. When your bike was brand new it was not so great. If you are going to put that much time and money into it, you might as well do it with something that will be really nice when you finish. You may in fact be able to sell it for what you put into it, but when your buyer posts about the bike he or she just bought, they will be told they could have done much better for the price.
As for the size, bikes of that era were typically not ridden with more than a hand width of seat post showing.
Agreed . . . When my bike was new it was not so great compared to other bikes currently on the market at the time.

But, compared to most any bike available at Walmart or Costco or Sportmart these days, THIS bike is an icon of build strength, efficiency and durability, a bike that is eminently and repeatedly rebuildable. A bike that, if restored with a modicum of care, will last the life of its next owner with minimal service.
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Old 11-28-13, 12:32 AM   #15
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For the sake of the current and next owners, make sure that stem and seatpost are in far enough to prevent damage.

I'm 5'8" and can tell that bike would be far too small for me.
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
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Old 11-28-13, 07:34 AM   #16
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For the sake of the current and next owners, make sure that stem and seatpost are in far enough to prevent damage.

I'm 5'8" and can tell that bike would be far too small for me.
Thanks. I have a few lady friends, some even more diminutive than you. This bike will find a good home.
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Old 11-28-13, 07:42 AM   #17
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I've been amused by those here who suggest that this bike is not worth fixing.
i hope you are not including me in that group of people
becauase i think it is a perfectly fine bike
and should be fixed up

my point was that there is a line between what is needed to keep that bike in condition
to make it a great riding and reliable bike for the forseeable future

and what is not needed as it only makes the project more expensive
without any payback in reliability or function

for instance
a new chain
left off my list before by mistake
is a reasonable item to keep a bike running perfectly

a carbon fibre aero profile handlebar
could generally be considered not reasonable

of course
you need to decide where that line is

and if you really think
a set of carbon bars
or power tap hub
or to have the frame modified to take hydraulic disc brakes
is reasonable
than that it your business

but anything you replace on the bike
besides
fixing what is broken
or replacing what is worn out
is spending money without receiving any improvement
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Old 11-28-13, 08:57 AM   #18
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I'm 5' 10" tall.

I've been amused by those here who suggest that this bike is not worth fixing. It's more than 30 years old and appears to have provided frequent, if not daily, service for a number of owners through the years.

So I'll fix it up. I'll do a careful and thorough job. I'll track the costs for parts, and if it doesn't fit me I'll sell it to one lucky buyer, hopefully for the cost of those parts, discounting my labor to zero because it's fun.

And then the NEW owner will have a "worthless" bike they can enjoy for another 30 years. :-)
Nobody said it's "worthless". What we've cautioned you about is putting way more money and "upgrades" in to an otherwise functional but low-line bike than it warrants.

The comparison to current Walmart of Ccosco bikes is totally irrelevant.
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Old 11-28-13, 10:13 AM   #19
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Nobody said it's "worthless". What we've cautioned you about is putting way more money and "upgrades" in to an otherwise functional but low-line bike than it warrants.

The comparison to current Walmart of Ccosco bikes is totally irrelevant.
Well, if things like quality and longevity are desirable, then the comparison is absolutely relevant.

Couple of years ago and well before I ever started wrenching on these things, I wanted to go riding with my son. But I didn't want to spend a lot of money until I was sure he'd like it. So we spent $300 on a new mountain bike at SportMart. They put it together, set it up and assured us it was ready to go. On our third ride, the entire drive side crank assembly came off. We were riding a slight uphill surface street; my son was about 5' 8" and 135 lbs at the time. A close look at the failure indicated that the splines onto which the cranks were set had softened, smushed and stripped. I took it back and got a store credit, but chose not to replace the bike with another one from that store. My friend has a sub-$500 mountain bike on which the entire front fork fell off as he moved it around in the garage. Same friend has another BMX bike with a central pivot that failed. We pulled it apart. That central pivot was held together by a double-threaded bolt held together only by an eighth-inch of thread. Which of course had let go with use.

I won't put WAY more money into this one. Instead, and for about half the cost of any of the 3 bike-shaped-objects described above, I'll restore a 30 year old model - an actual bicycle - that is far superior in build quality and will provide future decades of service. So the comparison IS, I believe, "relevant." And a bit of money and time spent to make it someone's forever bike is absolutely "warranted." Thanks.
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Old 11-28-13, 10:24 AM   #20
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You have obviously made up your mind, and that is fine. If you were planning to keep the bike for yourself, I would say do whatever makes you happy. I am pretty sure it is too small for you; you will likely need at least to buy a longer seatpost as was pointed out obliquely above.

I had a neighbor who restored a Chevy Vega. He told me he really liked it. If it makes him happy, fine. If he was planning to sell it, I suspect the market for even pristine Chevy Vegas is not hot, because there was nothing particularly good about them. The same applies to your bike.

You got much the same response on another popular bike forum site. Do what you want, but don't try to convince the rest of the world that you are right and everyone else (with the exception of one person on the other site who told you to powder coat it and convert to a fixie) is wrong.
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Old 11-28-13, 11:44 AM   #21
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Well, if things like quality and longevity are desirable, then the comparison is absolutely relevant......

Couple of years ago and well before I ever started wrenching on these things, I wanted to go riding with my son. But I didn't want to spend a lot of money until I was sure he'd like it. So we spent $300 on a new mountain bike at SportMart. They put it together, set it up and assured us it was ready to go. On our third ride, the entire drive side crank assembly came off. .
No, it's not a fair comparison since the alternative isn't a "BSO" from X-mart. The proper alternative is a new modest priced bike properly assembled from a decent bike dealer or a much newer high quality used bike from Craigs List, etc.

However, as MikeWMass noted, you have already decided what you want to do so there is really no point in further recommendations. You won't make a mistake fixing up your old bike but there is better use of your time and money, particularly since it's not the right size.
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Old 11-28-13, 12:18 PM   #22
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I'm 5' 10" tall.

I've been amused by those here who suggest that this bike is not worth fixing. It's more than 30 years old and appears to have provided frequent, if not daily, service for a number of owners through the years.

So I'll fix it up. I'll do a careful and thorough job. I'll track the costs for parts, and if it doesn't fit me I'll sell it to one lucky buyer, hopefully for the cost of those parts, discounting my labor to zero because it's fun.

And then the NEW owner will have a "worthless" bike they can enjoy for another 30 years. :-)

Well-stated. I support you 100%. (Well, maybe 90% if the thing's too small for you, but...)

This thing we do, this buying/riding/tuning/fixing bikes thing, it's about a lot of various motivations. Fun, fitness, thrift, profit, thrills, props from online forums, props at the cafe, obtuse political statements, convoluted social experiments, relief for ADHD symptoms, etc. There's a pile of reasons why ppl get into this game, and not all of these reasons will apply to everyone. (I'm into it for fun, ADHD relief, and the occasional compliment for the rare type of person who appreciates the crap I build-- the rest don't apply to me, but I respect cyclists for whom the other factors do apply..)

Duane understands that he'll not make money on this bike, and will probably not get "mad propz" from anyone online. He wants a functional bike with which he can practice bike maintenance/repair and get some rides in. If it's too small (I think it is), he can sell/give it to someone of the appropriate size. He realizes this, he's stated as much, so why are we gonna pile on him about how this particular Nishiki doesn't have butted tubes or forged dropouts?

If he's doing this
Quote:
...because it's fun
, who are we to question what his definition of fun might be? If you don't enjoy working on old budget-bikes, that's fine; unless you're a working bike mechanic, you don't have to. I, for one, like to work on crusty cruisers for fun, and i enjoy building a few bikes down at the co-op from time to time. To each his/her own.

Last edited by surreal; 11-28-13 at 12:22 PM. Reason: typoz
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Old 11-28-13, 12:28 PM   #23
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A good number of reasonably wise people on this forum have taken Raleigh Gran Prixs and Peugeot U-08s and have really cherry'd them out. They love the ride, the steel is well worth restoring and they LOVE their bikes. Whatever pulls your chain. If you do a full restore on it, you should consider a used Brooks saddle and leather bar tape. That would be pretty cool to see what you end up with after the re-spin. I always enjoy sharing in the joy of a neglected vintage bike being made whole, or even better than original.
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Old 11-28-13, 12:46 PM   #24
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A good number of reasonably wise people on this forum have taken Raleigh Gran Prixs and Peugeot U-08s and have really cherry'd them out.
to add credence to my previous statement that i dont think fixing up the old nishiki is a bad idea

my current long term project is a late 70s raleigh gran prix
i am trying to restore it to use as a regular rider
as it would not be worthy of being a museum peice
even if it iwas in pristine condition
which it is not


pehaps by anixis comment
this also qualifies me as wise
or at least puts me in a particular subset with some wise people
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Old 11-28-13, 03:02 PM   #25
Duane Behrens
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Minnesota and Southern California
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac (carbon), Specialized Roubaix (carbon, wifey), Raleigh Super Course (my favorite), and 2 Centurion project bikes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWMass View Post
You have obviously made up your mind, and that is fine. [snippy] Do what you want, but don't try to convince the rest of the world that you are right and everyone else (with the exception of one person on the other site who told you to powder coat it and convert to a fixie) is wrong.
:-) What an odd statement. I posted a few initial photos of the project, and was immediately hit with a battery of disapproval ("It's not worth any thing," "don't waste your time or money," "it's a crap bike,", etc). The point of my response is exactly the same as yours: I WILL do what I want for the reasons stated above . . . and no one's approval is required. Someone - maybe not me - will be happy with the end product. In the meantime, constructive criticism and advice on the restoration is very much appreciated. There is a lot of knowledge here and it has already provided great value. Thank you all.

This morning, we'll start stripping the frame of the old paint:

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Last edited by Duane Behrens; 11-28-13 at 03:25 PM.
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