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  1. #51
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djb View Post
    yes, but be sure to have a camera filming it, and be right beside the big flat screen or grandmas old china, so it will make a really good youtube fail vid.
    Not fail, viral
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  2. #52
    djb
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    so a googly eyes search for fail vids, you'll see what I mean, youtube has a gazillion "fail" vids (total mishaps, accidents etc, lots of them are real wincers)

    but of course, viral yes, especially if your endo takes down the tv, the china, and it all falls on the dog.

  3. #53
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Good fail videos are going viral. If I take out my flat screen, grandmas old china and kill a dog - I have to make sure I make enough money to replace all the broken items. I may use 2 or 3 cameras for a better angle choice. Thanks for the suggestion.
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    The Brits run "moto", with the right/front and left/rear..
    Yes, and going back 40-50 years most hand brake bicycles sold in the USA were set up this way. Being a natural lefty, I opted to reverse the levers, going left front. This worked because I rode lefty and carried stuff in my right hand if necessary. For years I had to listen to people telling me I had it backwards.

    Later when French and Italian 10 speeds (2x5) became the dominant imports they came in Left/Front, and that became the more common arrangement and it stuck. When the CPSC stepped in, they felt brakes should be standardized so people riding unfamiliar bikes wouldn't do endos by locking the front brake. They either tossed a coin, or when with what was dominant at the time and codified Left/front, which is how it's stayed since.
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  5. #55
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    Here is a photo of my cable setup with right/front. See how compact everything is. And no binding at the extreme turned front wheel position. Rubbing on the head tube, yes, but binding no.
    Robert

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  6. #56
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    I didn't say my method was better, I just said that this is the traditional way hand brake bikes have been set up in the US for years...since I started riding the multi geared bikes back in 1960. It just so happens that riding on the right side of the road and being required to use hand signals for turning, happens to be made with ones left hand/arm so traffic to the front and rear knows your intentions. That and the fact that in the past few years, the police have been watching bicyclists more closely to make sure they do tend to follow the traffic laws for bicyclists that are intended to keep bicyclists safer. You can be fined $48 for not stopping at a stop sign or traffic signal that's red. A bicyclist is much better off when traveling along any roadway if they signal their intentions of turning or slowing, so the motorists are completely aware of the bicyclists intentions on the road. I've been riding for 56 years and have never come close to having an altercation with a vehicle. And I wasn't arguing anything as you indicate! Just stating a fact tha just happens to coincide with our state and municipal laws for riding a bicycle!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Miyata Biker View Post
    I didn't say my method was better, I just said that this is the traditional way hand brake bikes have been set up in the US for years...since I started riding the multi geared bikes back in 1960. It just so happens that riding on the right side of the road and being required to use hand signals for turning, happens to be made with ones left hand/arm so traffic to the front and rear knows your intentions. That and the fact that in the past few years, the police have been watching bicyclists more closely to make sure they do tend to follow the traffic laws for bicyclists that are intended to keep bicyclists safer. You can be fined $48 for not stopping at a stop sign or traffic signal that's red. A bicyclist is much better off when traveling along any roadway if they signal their intentions of turning or slowing, so the motorists are completely aware of the bicyclists intentions on the road. I've been riding for 56 years and have never come close to having an altercation with a vehicle. And I wasn't arguing anything as you indicate! Just stating a fact tha just happens to coincide with our state and municipal laws for riding a bicycle!
    Uh, who are you "discussing" this with?
    Robert

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  8. #58
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    In Summary , Opinions differ ..

  9. #59
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Uh, who are you "discussing" this with?
    Probably me, and this statement which wasn't directed at him but was a reply to his message.

    Of course once you have a preference for one or the other, you can always look for reasons that your method is better.
    My point was, if you happen to like left-front braking, you can find some semi-plausible arguments in favor of it... better for signaling left hand turns, weaker hand is on the stronger brake, etc.

    And if you happen to prefer right-front braking, you can find similar semi-plausible arguments - more like a motorcycle, tidier cabling etc.

    But the real reason you happen to prefer one over the other is more likely to be just whatever feels right to you.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  10. #60
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    One bit of actual logic that might have had the CPSC mandate front left as standard might be the case of single hand brake bikes.

    Three speed coaster brake bikes were always set up with the gear control on the right (only place it can go) and the brake on the left. Even if the bike was a simple coaster brake the (optional) front brake lever went to the left, possibly because they wanted to use the same lever (levers back then were mirrored). So with front only brake bikes set up left front, it made sense that the added rear brake lever would go to the right.

    This has nothing to do with right or left handedness, or which side of the road people ride on, but is simply a development that followed an earlier established pattern the way European roads followed goat tracks.
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  11. #61
    Passista Reynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Here is a photo of my cable setup with right/front. See how compact everything is. And no binding at the extreme turned front wheel position. Rubbing on the head tube, yes, but binding no.
    That's neat, and I used this setup for a long time, but still prefer a gentler curve and no headtube rubbing. And I run my shifter cables crossed under DT. Probably no real difference, I just like it that way.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    One bit of actual logic that might have had the CPSC . . .
    That all makes a lot of sense to a real person. Unfortunately, bureaucrats eschew logic and everything else that could be construed as good governance. (Remember NHSTA's backward steering motorcycle -- also front braking related).
    A coin flip is more likely. Actually, a coin flip would produce preferred results 50% of the time -- a better record than the regulators produce by their own devices.
    Last edited by AnkleWork; 04-02-14 at 12:56 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
    That all makes a lot of sense to a real person. Unfortunately, bureaucrats eschew logic and everything else that could be construed as good governance. (Remember NHSTA's backward steering motorcycle -- also front braking related).
    A coin flip is more likely.
    Being in the industry at the time, I can say that the CPSC did a very good job working with established norms, rather than trying to remake the world. All of the initial standards were function related, establishing minimum standards and letting manufacturers meet them however they preferred. This was very different from the current norm of not only say what needs to be done, but micro-managing how it's to be done.
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Being in the industry at the time, I can say that the CPSC did a very good job working with established norms, rather than trying to remake the world. All of the initial standards were function related, establishing minimum standards and letting manufacturers meet them however they preferred. This was very different from the current norm of not only say what needs to be done, but micro-managing how it's to be done.
    Refreshing to know, but alas, from a bygone era.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
    Refreshing to know, but alas, from a bygone era.
    Yes, definitely from a bygone era. It's enlightening to look at the lengths of bills coming out of Congress through the year. As technology made words cheaper, bills have gotten longer and more complex. First it was the Typewriter replacing pen and ink, then photocopying, and now computer word processing.

    I've long argued that the only way to preserve our founders' intents was with a constitutional amendment requiring that every law had to be cut into stone before it could go into effect. If not stone, at least handwritten in pen and ink. That and only that seems to be the way to prevent legislation by whim, and Congressional micromanagement.
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    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
    That's neat, and I used this setup for a long time, but still prefer a gentler curve and no headtube rubbing. And I run my shifter cables crossed under DT. Probably no real difference, I just like it that way.
    Actually I have two set up as shown above and one bike as you describe with the shift cables crossed underneath. Even there though the brakes conform to my front/right preference. It wouldn't do to have some bikes one way and the other different in that regard. The reason for the change of the shift cables on the one below is I just couldn't bear for the new paint job on this vintage steel frame to become marred by the cables rubbing. I took great pains to make sure the bends in the cable would clear the head tube.

    Robert

    My hero: "Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nuthin'..." (Joel Chandler Harris, Uncle Remus")

  17. #67
    Senior Member SquidPuppet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Actually I have two set up as shown above and one bike as you describe with the shift cables crossed underneath. Even there though the brakes conform to my front/right preference. It wouldn't do to have some bikes one way and the other different in that regard. The reason for the change of the shift cables on the one below is I just couldn't bear for the new paint job on this vintage steel frame to become marred by the cables rubbing. I took great pains to make sure the bends in the cable would clear the head tube.

    What fork is that? Handsome bike BTW.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
    What fork is that? Handsome bike BTW.
    Thanks. That is a 1" full carbon fork sold a while back by Performance under their house brand. No longer available. Shame too, as I remember it was just over $100. Pretty sure it was made by Kinesis for them. Glad I got it when I did. 1" full carbon forks are very pricey and relatively rare these days. Paint was done when I had the frame redone.
    Robert

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  19. #69
    Senior Member SquidPuppet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Thanks. That is a 1" full carbon fork sold a while back by Performance under their house brand. No longer available. Shame too, as I remember it was just over $100. Pretty sure it was made by Kinesis for them. Glad I got it when I did. 1" full carbon forks are very pricey and relatively rare these days. Paint was done when I had the frame redone.
    Thanks. That subtle angle sweep at the top of the blade is elegant. The rearward movement looks in balance with the amount of depth that it acheives in the same space.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
    Thanks. That subtle angle sweep at the top of the blade is elegant. The rearward movement looks in balance with the amount of depth that it acheives in the same space.
    Here is a shot of the whole thing.

    Robert

    My hero: "Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nuthin'..." (Joel Chandler Harris, Uncle Remus")

  21. #71
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    the cross over under the down tube of the gear cables does smooth out the curve when the left shifter goes to the right frame stop..

  22. #72
    Senior Member trailangel's Avatar
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    If you have ridden British motorcycles, you know the rear brake and clutch is on the left and the front brake is always on the right. Other bikes, front brake on the right as well.
    If left handed, the rear will be on your left, as it's the first brake you go to, not the front brake.
    If right handed, the rear brake will be on your left, as it's the first brake you go to, not the front brake.
    This is the way.

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