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Old 03-11-05, 04:21 PM   #1
Slacker
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Friction shifters and new cogsets (9 or 10 speed)?

I've got some old Suntour barend friction shifters I'd like to use on a build, but I want to use a newer 9 or 10 speed cogset if possible. Will friction shifters work with any RD and cogset, or do I have to buy a particular RD for use with friction shifters? Will an old Suntour RD work with a newer cogset -- or do I need a newer RD for the newer cogset?

That's a lot of tiny questions - basically I'd like to understand how everything works together as far compatibility -- if my shifters are the friction type, does it matter how many cogs and what kind of RD I have?
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Old 03-11-05, 04:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker
I've got some old Suntour barend friction shifters I'd like to use on a build, but I want to use a newer 9 or 10 speed cogset if possible. Will friction shifters work with any RD and cogset, or do I have to buy a particular RD for use with friction shifters? Will an old Suntour RD work with a newer cogset -- or do I need a newer RD for the newer cogset?

That's a lot of tiny questions - basically I'd like to understand how everything works together as far compatibility -- if my shifters are the friction type, does it matter how many cogs and what kind of RD I have?
Friction works with almost everything. You have to have a RD that has enough travel between the hi and low limits to cover the cassette,as well as the ability to shift the biggest cog used.If you have the stuff try it.
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Old 03-11-05, 05:07 PM   #3
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I'm using suntour bar end shifters with a VGT Luxe on a 8-speed cogset. It works great, except that it shifts rather poorly to the biggest and smallest cogs. Is the freehub body on 9's and 10's the same size as 7/8's? If so, you may have a similar problem. If it's bigger, you may have a worse problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker
I've got some old Suntour barend friction shifters I'd like to use on a build, but I want to use a newer 9 or 10 speed cogset if possible. Will friction shifters work with any RD and cogset, or do I have to buy a particular RD for use with friction shifters? Will an old Suntour RD work with a newer cogset -- or do I need a newer RD for the newer cogset?

That's a lot of tiny questions - basically I'd like to understand how everything works together as far compatibility -- if my shifters are the friction type, does it matter how many cogs and what kind of RD I have?
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Old 03-11-05, 05:38 PM   #4
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The 10 speed cassette is the same as an 8 or a 9, all three are wider then 7-speed.
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Old 03-11-05, 06:17 PM   #5
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So the shifters will provide enough pull, but there's a chance I'll need a newer RD to span a newer cogset -- correct?

Thanks all.
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Old 03-11-05, 07:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Slacker
So the shifters will provide enough pull, but there's a chance I'll need a newer RD to span a newer cogset -- correct?

Thanks all.
Probably. Also--and I might be blowing smoke here--make sure that your bar-ends pull enough cable to cover the entire distance from the small to the big. I've never heard of this being a problem, but I can imagine that it might be possible, given that nobody had envisioned 10speed freehubs back in the good old days of suntour.
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Old 03-12-05, 06:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker
I've got some old Suntour barend friction shifters I'd like to use on a build, but I want to use a newer 9 or 10 speed cogset if possible. Will friction shifters work with any RD and cogset, or do I have to buy a particular RD for use with friction shifters? Will an old Suntour RD work with a newer cogset -- or do I need a newer RD for the newer cogset?
That's kind of an unusual combination so I haven't tried it myself and I doubt very many others have either. If it was my bike, here's what I would do:

First thing is to measure the rear dropout spaceing. That will determine how wide of a rear hub you can use. If you're working with an old frame, that's where the decisions start. More rear cogs require a wider rear triangle spaceing.

If you have a 130mm rear triangle, I'd bolt everything together with the shifters and rear derailleur that you have now but with the correct width chain for your cassette and see what happens. My bet is that a friction bar end shifter will have enough cable pull to handle the range that you need. I'd also bet on the rear derailleur working unless it's so old and worn that it's too sloppy to make consistent shifts with tight 9 and 10 speed cog shifting.

Good luck!
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Old 03-12-05, 08:46 AM   #8
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let us know how this works--I was thinking of doing something similar...thanks
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Old 03-12-05, 11:43 AM   #9
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I used a 9sp Ultegra with Campy friction shifters and old Campy NR rd and it worked great. There weren't any problems with pull and derailleur range, in fact it never occurred to me that there could be. The only problem was that the hanger was slightly bent and it would ping the wheel on the largest cog. I tried it on two bikes, and only had the problem on one, and I never could dial it out.

All this was on steel frames that were spaced for 126, and the wheel fit without much problem. I wouldn't do it on an aluminum frame though.
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Old 03-12-05, 07:24 PM   #10
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Slacker,

Maybe you are OK, maybe you are not. Apart from the type of derailleur (i.e long or short cage), it depends mostly on the age of your current derailleur and shifters. If they were made for 5 or 6 gears, it's likely they won't work with 8 to 10, but if they were made for 7 gears, it's likely one or both items will work.

Things to watch for:
1. Derailleur
You might be able to use it by unscrewing both limit screws. But if it was made for a freewheel, check inner clearance. Old derailleurs required a bit more inside clearance, and it might hit the spokes when you are in low gear. If it is too close for comfort, change it.
Also, pre-1985 derailleurs were less precise than modern ones, so you might be better with one of the cheaper Shimano derailleurs than with the one you have.
And by the way, a new derailleur will work in indexed mode but the old one wont. So if you change the shifters, make sure you either get new shifters that work in friction mode (i.e. forget STI) or change the derailleur too.

One way to check derailleur before you change the cogs is to remove the chain, unscrew both limit screws and see how far the derailleur moves.

2. Shifters
If the shifters bottom out with a 7-gear setup, they won't work with 8, 9 or 10 gears. But if they are like mine, on a 7-speed setup, the shifters cover a 150-degree arc whereas they could cover a 180-degree arc (i.e. if I remove the cable, they do a full half-circle). Therefore I assume my shifters could work with 8 to 10 gears.
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Old 03-12-05, 07:35 PM   #11
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Also, pre-1985 derailleurs were less precise than modern ones, so you might be better with one of the cheaper Shimano derailleurs than with the one you have.
That's just nonsense when it comes to friction. And FWIW, the Suntour friction RD were as good as it gets.
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