Kopsis

Both the Fuji and DB MTBs are a real mix of components, so it's really hard to say one is better/worse based solely on component selection. For example the DB has a Deore FD that is (in theory) better than the Acera on the Fuji. But for the RD it's reversed with Fuji having Deore and DB having Acera. For many components (like crankset) you have to compare across manufacturers (SR vs. Shimano) which becomes even more difficult.

To make matters worse, there are "intangibles" for components that might cause you to prefer a lower tier. For example, I really like the way SRAM road bike shifters work and so I'd chose SRAM Rival shifters over Shimano Ultegra even though Ultegra is a higher component tier. Some folks dislike (or hate or despise with every ounce of their being ) SRAM shifting and would gladly go down a component tier or two to get Shimano. And of course the Campy aficionados think we're all a bunch of knuckle draggers. No one is "right" ... if everyone liked the same art, music, beer and bike components the world would be a boring place.

In the end, you have to remember that a bike is more than just the sum of its components. When you get down to two bikes at similar price points at the same store, the buyer really needs to ride them and see which one "feels" best. Fit, handling, performance, comfort, etc. are arguably much more important than which bike has the better components.

lesscan

I agree whole heartedly, but also, you dont want to buy a POS, nor do I want to steer him towards a POS.
Now obviously neither this Fuji nor the DB are POSs by any means and I know that PB is gonna be a better shot in the dark than Target is.
I actually have a Schwinn MTB that I bought from Target about 8 years ago and its actually a pretty good bike... HEAVY and extremely below entry level, but good. Ive put well over 1K miles on it and have changed nothing more than the cassette and tires. But Im also not riding the thing in a Cyclocross race or up the Rockies.... or down for that matter.

Im sure I can get on a $10K bike and not like something about it as not every bike is perfect for everyone unless its custom made for that particular rider as Im sure most $10K are or can be.

So I know its all personal preference, but I guess IM just looking for theory or what looks good on paper.


If anyone has the time and patience, I would actually like to compare the 2 bikes together, component by component.


AL! (you know who you are! ) If youre reading this. Feel free to chime in!

HillRider

Gee, you don't have to get mad about it.

lesscan

LOL! Oops!

fietsbob

.. what it weighs is a popular criteria, less is better ..

Drew Eckhardt 

To be pedantic, "quality" isn't what we're looking at and we can often hit 100% for a lot less money.

For example, 2010 Campagnolo Ultrashift controls Veloce through Super Record were identical except

- Centaur and below had a 10 speed index cam
- Centaur had an optional 21g saving carbon brake blade set which was standard on Chorus and above
- Athena and above had the 11 speed index cam
- Super Record had lighter rear ratchet discs that saved 7g per pair

Record added a couple sexy cut-outs to the brake blade tops and a red "11" logo although they weighed the same as Chorus; Super Record added a third cut-out.

With the same parts quality was the same in all cases, although Super Record weighing 330g a pair, other levers with carbon brake blades 337g, and controls with conventional aluminum brake levers tipped the scales at 358g.

Price did vary from about $120 to over $300 including a cable set ordered from the UK.

Durability may also decrease with increasing price - titanium big cogs don't last as long as steel.

FBinNY 

+1, which is why I always come back to the idea of fitness for the purpose, and drew the comparison between race cars and pickup trucks.

Decades ago I used to ride Campy Record, but for the last 20 years Chorus stuff has been as good (or even better for the purpose) than Record for about 60% of the price. The top end in bikes is like the top end in cell phones. There will always be people who want newer or cooler product, and will run out to replace anything that isn't the "latest". OTOH, for pure functional bang for the buck, the best simply isn't better enough to justify the price difference.

BTW- 10 or so years ago, when I was active at Campagnolo, and when they decide to "upgrade" Chorus to CF (like Record) I strongly lobbied against it, arguing that there was a substantial "metal" audience, and they should leave chorus as is. Richard Storino took it a step farther, and argued that they should move Chorus down, or differentiate it somehow, and offer Record in both CF and aluminum versions. Obviously both ideas were shot down, and I was the last customer buying aluminum Chorus in good quantity.

lesscan

WELP! I guess that ends that!

HillRider

They took your advice somewhat later and somewhat lower in the food chain. At one point in the later 2000's Centaur was offered with a choice of carbon or aluminum brifter levers and crank arms.

FBinNY 

I believe that this was a short term transition deal, as they moved Centaur to CF.

The sad state of affairs in the bike industry today is that all product is designed to satisfy the needs of OEMs who want the most marketability and bullet points for easy sales or value added perception, and not for the needs of those who actually ride.

The aftermarket is an afterthought these days, and we're locked into a replace/upgade world, where not only aren't products made for more than a year or two, but support for even high end products can disappear within a few years.

SJX426 

Buy used. You get more quality for less. Visit the C&V forum:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-related-stuff

lesscan

I hear ya, but I dont believe in buying used as your first bike especially if you are not versed in what to look for.
Just my personal opinion.

Crescent Cycle

But now I get to say I have the best alloy groupset Campy ever made despite it being over a decade old.

fietsbob

Or buy new on closeout .. I built up my Touring bike .. used Campag Euclid derailleurs
were sold thru shop's distributors when <C> conceded the MTB sector to Shimano..

anixi

https://www.roadbikereview.com/reviewscrx.aspx