Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    How to rate Components

    First off, let me apologize if this has already been discussed or if this is not the correct forum to post this question.
    I did a few searches and didnt see anything like it so maybe the community can help me out.


    With all the different bikes and components out there, how do you know what is good and what is crap?
    Is there some sort of component rating system that tells you A is better than B but not as good as C?
    Is there a list that ranks components from 1 to 10? Components like cassettes, levers, derailleurs, etc.

    Any help is appreciated in understanding this better.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,393
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    F


    ...With all the different bikes and components out there, how do you know what is good and what is crap?
    Is there some sort of component rating system that tells you A is better than B but not as good as C?
    .
    There is no way to effectively rate components, and if there were it would be loaded with opinion and personal bias. It's somewhat safe to say that within each manufacturer's product line, more expensive implies better, but this may not hold if we consider fitness for purpose. After all nobody would argue that a Ferrari is a better vehicle than a Ford F-150 pickup ---unless you need to haul a bunch of plywood.

    There there' will be endless debate whether at a given price point, Shimano, Campagnolo, or Sram is superior.

    So don't expect any clear rating system or answers, though there may be some consensus on where the line is at the bottom end of the lines where stuff simply doesn't hold up to every day use.

    Also as a general rule, there's lot's of compression at the top, where each quality step becomes much more expensive. For this reason many experienced riders buy the B or C level stuff, getting 95% of the quality of the A stuff t about half the cost.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  3. #3
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    3,100
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Price .

    but you can over buy for your real needs ..
    . seeking Best when it is more bells and whistles than required..

    Now, winter is a good time to get Bike shop workers time ,
    for a Q&A as the winter after Xmas is slow.


    There there' will be endless debate whether at a given price point, Shimano, Campagnolo, or Sram is superior.
    Like whats the best car, truck or lunch menu..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-14-14 at 08:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,975
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    but you can over buy for your real needs .
    Oh yes!
    My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.

  5. #5
    Senior Member libero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    My Bikes
    Viner, Klein, Caad9, Giant
    Posts
    146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    First off, let me apologize if this has already been discussed or if this is not the correct forum to post this question.
    I did a few searches and didnt see anything like it so maybe the community can help me out.


    With all the different bikes and components out there, how do you know what is good and what is crap?
    Is there some sort of component rating system that tells you A is better than B but not as good as C?
    Is there a list that ranks components from 1 to 10? Components like cassettes, levers, derailleurs, etc.
    I like FBinNY's great answer.

    In addition: you'll just want to develop a nose for quality and price-performance - just like shopping for anything else. The more you ride, and the more you try different gear, the more you get your quality sense tuned.
    Other than that, it's kind of just guesswork so educate yourself and take educated guesses. Go with what works.
    Don't forget to have fun!

    When I bought my first road bike, I started really low-cost: craigslist, an outlay of just $500, a nice Cannondale about 10 years old or less.
    My next purchase was a new road bike of about $2000 with 105 groupset.
    And I just kept getting smarter about bike gear shopping - budgets, used vs new, compatibility, expected longevity.
    I plan to replace each bike every 8 years so buy just enough of the right gear to make that horizon effectively. And I have 2 main road bikes in the rotation.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    High Plains
    My Bikes
    old clunker
    Posts
    1,053
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    . . .
    With all the different bikes and components out there, how do you know what is good and what is crap?
    Is there some sort of component rating system that tells you A is better than B but not as good as C?
    Is there a list that ranks components from 1 to 10? Components like cassettes, levers, derailleurs, etc . . .
    Define "good."
    Define "crap."
    Define "better."
    Define "not as good as."
    After that, it gets easy.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    26,135
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The "big 3" (Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo) all make excellent full line products, i.e. you can completely equip a bike within one manufacturer's products with a couple of minor exceptions (e.g. Shimano no longer makes headsets). With each maker's product lines, more expensive generally means lighter, prettier, more exotic materials, and to some extent, more durable but that flattens out above the mid-lines.

  8. #8
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    OK, but I guess what Im asking is, if I want to buy a brand new bike, or help a friend buy a new bike, say for $700 and the parts are all Shimano. How do I know the Shimano parts are any different than the Shimano parts on the Schwinn at Target?

    What if I look at 2 similar bikes but they each have different Shimano parts. How do I tell which is of better quality than the other?

    What makes 105 better quality than Tiagra and what makes Tiagra better than 2300? Or is it?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,393
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    OK, but I guess what Im asking is, if I want to buy a brand new bike, or help a friend buy a new bike, say for $700 and the parts are all Shimano. How do I know the Shimano parts are any different than the Shimano parts on the Schwinn at Target?

    What if I look at 2 similar bikes but they each have different Shimano parts. How do I tell which is of better quality than the other?

    What makes 105 better quality than Tiagra and what makes Tiagra better than 2300? Or is it?
    To compare Shimano to Shimano, go to their site and see the groups ranked top to bottom. Or you can compare the groups among comparable bikes. For example if one $700 bike has the same component group that you generally see on $900 biks, that could be a good sign. Or there might be trade offs elsewhere, like the wheels, saddle, or whatever.

    As to what makes components better. Near the bottom, things like more rigidity and reliability, and better ability to retain adjustments. More money also means lighter parts, and as you near the top of the line, the differences become narrow and more about weight and cosmetics.

    That's the 10 cent lesson. For more you have to do some shopping and reviewing what;s out there and what $X.XX dollars will buy.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  10. #10
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the help.
    Would you say these rankings are accurate?

    https://circlecitybicycles.com/bikecomp.htm

  11. #11
    Andrew R Stewart Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder
    Posts
    3,715
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A Shimano 105X brake caliper on a trek/specialized/can'o'ale or schwinn/next is the same thing, made next to the others on the same line.

    You can go to Shimano's site (or any other brand's, do the homework) and see the ranking of grade/model easily enough. As the costs gets greater the material/finishing/manufacturing tolerances get better. (But a parallel narrowing of the performance/versatility also happens).

    But not mentioned yet is the assembly/build/tuning of the bike, or the matching of a bike's abilities with the rider's needs. The importance of the fit comes into play early on. But the OP's question, like so many others, doesn't really seek these qualities out.

    A good analogy might be a book. It's not the paper or the font that the words are reproduced on/with that matters. But it's the plot/character development/story that is so much more important. Andy.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,054
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    look at what the components are made of: plastic, steel, aluminium, carbon fiber

  13. #13
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    other Vancouver
    Posts
    6,956
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    OK, but I guess what Im asking is, if I want to buy a brand new bike, or help a friend buy a new bike, say for $700 and the parts are all Shimano. How do I know the Shimano parts are any different than the Shimano parts on the Schwinn at Target?
    In terms of the Target bike, the visible parts may be the same, but the invisible parts (headset, bottom bracket, seatpost, pedals, etc.) may be of vastly different quality. Also, when comparing department store bikes to bike shop bikes, remember that you'll be getting a dedicated professional to talk to and to service your bike, whereas at Target you might find a salesperson... maybe.
    Jeff Wills

    All my bikes.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    City of Brotherly Love
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Companion, Nashbar Touring, Novara DiVano, Trek FX 7.1, Giant Upland
    Posts
    1,164
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    What makes 105 better quality than Tiagra and what makes Tiagra better than 2300? Or is it?
    They are each engineered for a purpose and a price point. Here is what Shimano says about each of them:

    Shimano 105 makes "pro-level" technology more accessible to part time racers and fitness enthusiasts. The Shimano 105 concept of "Smooth, Round and Natural" is consistently demonstrated in every component, giving its user a sense of satisfaction, pleasure and fulfillment.
    TIAGRA offers advanced functions for sport and fitness riders, completely reengineered and remastered with a more refined, more ergonomic design. TIAGRA shares our top groups' engineering lineage, but has its own unique identity, offering greatly enhanced feel and sleek design that's backed by a new level of performance.
    The Shimano 2200 components are great for road-sport bikes with flat handlebars or drops handlebars. These 8-speed componets carry the Shimano logo and are compatible with the Sora group.

  15. #15
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    My Bikes
    '77 Fuji S-10S, '82 Fuji Team, '88 Fuji Saratoga, '08 Scattante CFR, '12 Jamis Sputnik, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT
    Posts
    2,395
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    At the $700 price level, you'll have to look at off brands (like at Performance Bike) with aluminum frames and lesser wheels, cranks, and brake calipers. They'll all be functional and will last with proper adjustment. Have the shop assist you with size selection and fitting, paying particular attention to how the bike and your body feel when riding for longer periods of time (over an hour). If the bike fits, that's the most important thing. Consider this first bike a gateway to higher quality and more addictive drugs, I mean bikes.

    Don't allow the shop to upsell you to beyond your budget. Find another shop until you can afford what you need.

    Alternatively, if you can save an additional $500 to $600 to apply to this purchase, you can move to pretty decent entry level bikes (~$1200-1300)...or can afford the luxury of brand named frames.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    26,135
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a very good general rule: NEVER buy a bicycle from Target, Walmart or similar stores. As Jeff Wills said, even if the visible components are the same (and they probably aren't) the things you can't see will be vastly inferior and poorly assembled by whoever was in the stockroom that day. The will also know nothing about sizing or adjusting the bike to fit you.

    Also avoid BikesDirect. They have good prices on well equipped bikes but they are do-it-yourself assembly kits and not something the new and inexperienced owner should tackle.

    Now, not all bike shops are the same so ask around and find out which of you local shops has a good reputation for service and customer treatment. Buy there. Your $700 price point is sufficient to get good reliable components on a decent frame.

  17. #17
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    I really appreciate all the help guys I really do, But Im only asking about the components.
    Its the one thing about bikes that I need to really learn.
    I know $700 is not alot of money, I know not to buy from Target and I know that my LBS or LPB is the best place to go. And I know $700 at my LBS will get me a tire..... maybe!
    I just bought a Fuji Roubaix at PB in Nov. So when I look at other bikes and compare them to mine, all I really look at is the design of the bike.

    I just need to educate myself on components and what makes them quality and like Jeff Wills said, the invisible parts.

    2 friends now have asked me for help in buying a bike and I refer them to "my guy" at PB.
    Thats all well and good, but I want to have that knowledge where I can answer the questions and not refer him to the "pro".

    Thanks again for all the comments.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    26,135
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    . And I know $700 at my LBS will get me a tire..... maybe!
    I just bought a Fuji Roubaix at PB in Nov. So when I look at other bikes and compare them to mine, all I really look at is the design of the bike.

    I just need to educate myself on components and what makes them quality and like Jeff Wills said, the invisible parts.
    If $700 only gets you a tire, you certainly need a different shop!!

    Fuji bikes are fine and they are Performance's "name brand" as apart from their house brand bikes. Since you can't disassemble a showroom bike to see the hidden items all you can go on is the brand's reputation and, to some extent, the price point. You will do well to take you friend back to Performance.

  19. #19
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    My Bikes
    '77 Fuji S-10S, '82 Fuji Team, '88 Fuji Saratoga, '08 Scattante CFR, '12 Jamis Sputnik, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT
    Posts
    2,395
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The best way to learn about components is to ride them and to service them. It's taken me decades to recognize what's working and what isn't with bike components. And I can only comment on the ones that i have personally used, have maintained, or have diagnosed and adjusted/repaired for others. And in 40 years, I haven't touched a fifth of what's out there...

    Maybe what you can do for your friends is to say, "well, my Roubaix has ... components and I find that they ...." "For my next purchase, I think that I would be looking for ..., because my current bike doesn't..." or "Let's ask the salesperson at PB, maybe they'll be able to shed a little more light..."

    The other thing that you can do would be to ask about a specific component for a specific use, here on Bike Forums. At least you'll get an experienced member sharing what they've learned through practice.

    Learning about parts in the abstract won't be as helpful to you or your friends as you may imaging now. Learn by doing.

  20. #20
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
    Learning about parts in the abstract won't be as helpful to you or your friends as you may imaging now. Learn by doing.

    Thank you! That is helpful to know and pretty much what I suspected.

    My 2nd friend asked me about a MTB and my first response, knowing his budget was Fuji or Diamondback.
    When I asked my PB guy he confirmed Fuji. Fuji Absolute to be exact. So then my next question was "Why?" Why is the Fuji better than the Diamondback when they are nearly the same price. Now I didnt ask him because we were texting and I didnt have time, but I might still. But I also wanted to get some opinions from here too.

    Heres the 2 I looked at and suggested to my friend. (By name alone)

  21. #21
    aka Phil Jungels Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    My Bikes
    08 Specialized Crosstrail Sport, 05 Sirrus Comp
    Posts
    5,851
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    NEVERRRRRR be afraid to ask "WHY". !!!!!

    That is exactly what they are getting paid to do!

    "Retirement is the best job I ever had!" Me, 2009


    Specialized Crosstrail Sport - '08
    Nishiki Sport - misappropriated from my youngest son (circa 1984)
    Marin Stinson - misappropriated by my youngest grandson - '01
    "The Beast" - 1990 Schwinn Airdyne (in the basement for winter torture)

  22. #22
    Senior Member lesscan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago, IL. USA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix 3.0 - Fuji Finest 1.1 - Scattante CX350 - Schwinn POS MTB
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    NEVERRRRRR be afraid to ask "WHY". !!!!!

    That is exactly what they are getting paid to do!

    No, I know, but like I said, it was in a text and he wasnt working so I didnt wanna take up too much of his time.
    But if/when I see him this Friday with my friend, I will ask why.

    Why Damnit Why?!

  23. #23
    Senior Member robert schlatte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    columbus, ohio
    My Bikes
    Soma Saga, 1980 Schwinn Voyageur 11.8
    Posts
    442
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    Thanks for the help.
    Would you say these rankings are accurate?

    https://circlecitybicycles.com/bikecomp.htm

    Yes, as a general ranking system but see all the previous responses in this thread.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    26,135
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesscan View Post
    When I asked my PB guy he confirmed Fuji. Fuji Absolute to be exact. So then my next question was "Why?" Why is the Fuji better than the Diamondback when they are nearly the same price.
    Two possible reasons:

    1. The Fuji is better equipped than the Diamondback for the same money.
    2. Performance has a better margin on Fuji than Diamondback.

  25. #25
    aka Phil Jungels Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    My Bikes
    08 Specialized Crosstrail Sport, 05 Sirrus Comp
    Posts
    5,851
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The best of those two, depends on his usage, fit, likes, and style.

    They are two completely different bikes.................

    "Retirement is the best job I ever had!" Me, 2009


    Specialized Crosstrail Sport - '08
    Nishiki Sport - misappropriated from my youngest son (circa 1984)
    Marin Stinson - misappropriated by my youngest grandson - '01
    "The Beast" - 1990 Schwinn Airdyne (in the basement for winter torture)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •