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Old 01-16-14, 03:23 PM   #1
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can't get enough FD High (outside) clearance

I am setting up a bike for a friend and am having trouble getting the FD (Ultegra FD 6600) to clear the chain on the outside on the big ring.

I've gone back to first principles: release the cable, set the Low limit tight, reset cable.

But shifting Up to the big ring even with the limit screw fully out, I still rub the chain when in the smallest rear cog.

I think the cage is pretty much parallel to the chain ring. (the attached photo is probably too blurry to show anything.)

any suggestions?

(and no comments about the filth please. I am taking it out now to clean it up for him.)
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Old 01-16-14, 04:01 PM   #2
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maybe the crank sits out too far .. you might try a braze on band Adapter

for a much larger seat tube than you have, and shims back down to your seat tube size and a Bz on Front D

it will be outboard more by that combination.
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Old 01-16-14, 04:08 PM   #3
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If the chainrings are too far out you can try a shorter BB axle which would bring them in but yet not hit or rub on the chain stay .
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Old 01-16-14, 04:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeman715 View Post
If the chainrings are too far out you can try a shorter BB axle which would bring them in but yet not hit or rub on the chain stay .
This is a Hollowtech BB / crank setup.
is that even modifiable?
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Old 01-16-14, 04:30 PM   #5
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No , it can not be .
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Old 01-16-14, 04:57 PM   #6
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Have you pulled on the FD cable along the down tube to make sure the FD can't move further out? Always a good thing to check to make sure it is the FD and not a shifter/cable issue.
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Old 01-21-14, 01:46 PM   #7
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Haven/t yet (shifted by pulling the cable) but I will now.
Is that then the dead simplest way of testing throw - using the cable? and it that shifts OK, then look at the shifter itself?
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Old 01-21-14, 01:58 PM   #8
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Front Derailleur installation quandry. Not all FDs are created equal?

I am having trouble shifting to the big ring on this Ultegra 10S setup.
the bike (a Fondriest aluminum) has a FD braze-on tab.
I can't seem to get enough outboard throw, even with the limit backed out completely.

To try to trouble shoot the shifting problem, I thought I would swap out the FD and try some alternates (who knows? Just trying to narrow the options.)

However, swapping a FD-6500 for the original, troublesome FD-6600 (and then trying a Dura Ace FD), with both the swaps, I cannot adjust the line of the FD cage to anything close to parallel. Both the alternates have the tail of the FD toed waaaaay IN.

I am using the little scooped out washer between the tab and the bolt. But still, when I crank the bolt tight, the FD spins in. and seems to have only one happy position (misaligned)

Is it typical that certain FDs just do not work on certain frames?
Or am I (once again) missing something.

The first 2 photos below are the original FD-6600

This setup by the way has a Hollowtech BB / crankset on which I fear I cannot adjust the spindle position laterally and so cannot adjust the chainline (which otherwise would likely solve all my shifting problems.)
the 2nd set shows the alignment of the replacement/Tester FD-6500
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File Type: jpg IMG_20140121_142145.jpg (37.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20140121_142154.jpg (31.2 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20140121_142401.jpg (42.7 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20140121_142408.jpg (37.2 KB, 29 views)
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Old 01-21-14, 02:17 PM   #9
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they're certainly not al shaped identically ..


did you change any part of the group from what Shimano engineers designed?

they want total control ..


If you put it up on the repair stand in front of me I could take a hands on look ..

other than that the answer: Its 42.

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Old 01-21-14, 02:18 PM   #10
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How long have you had this bike? Did it ever work?
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Old 01-21-14, 02:21 PM   #11
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Can you move the original FD by hand and make it work? That would be my first step. If so, then it is more likely a cable tension problem. Make sure that the front brifter is claicked all the way to the low position before attaching the cable, or it will never work.
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Old 01-21-14, 02:28 PM   #12
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yea remove the cable , then tighten the mounting bolt. then re attach the cable,
it the cable pull is possibly pulling the derailleur sideways .
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Old 01-21-14, 02:42 PM   #13
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Recent years have brought on a number of problems like yours. The tubing diameter determines the throw range of a front derailleur, and chainlines have also become vary variable. So there are unfortunate combinations that simply won't work.

Before giving up, test the actual throw of the derailleur independent of the shift lever. Back off the limits, and shift by either pushing down on the lever arm directly, or by pulling the cable away from the downtube like a bow string. This is a pass fail test. If it passes, then it's simply a lever/cable trim issue. If it fails, you need to consider oprions.

First, make sure the installation is textbook, then decide how much more throw you need. If it's just a hair, you can sometimes fix it by rotating the FD so it's slightly toe out. This is a limited option and only helps in a very borderline approach.

Otherwise, your options are to bring the crank inboard, move the derailleur out a bit, extending the throw, or changing derailleurs.

Moving the crank in is obvious, so I'll let you handle that, moving the FD out can be done with a home made shim placed inboard of the FD body where it meets the Braze-on. Sometimes it's also necessary to file the slot a bit so the screw has room to move out. You can also try to extend the throw, by finding out exactly what touches at the extreme outboard position and filing away some material.

This is the kind of thing that separates mechanics, form folks who simply hang components, so decide who you are, and consider your options accordingly.
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Old 01-21-14, 02:53 PM   #14
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What FB said.

I've also had luck removing material from the anvil shaped pad that hits the limit screws to increase travel. I would also take a close look at the junction of the outer upper half of the FD and the inner surface of the FD hanger, because removing some material from one or both of those areas may permit you to set the FD straight and aligned with the chainring. If this were a steel frame I would slightly bend the hanger if necessary to align things, but would be hesitant to do the same on an aluminum frame set.
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Old 01-21-14, 02:54 PM   #15
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First of all, to test the derailleurs travel one of course needs to use either manually pull the cable or just push on the derailleur until it hits the stop. But there's a flaw in assuming travel is the problem. If the OP has the derailleur as far out as possible when the chain is all the way in (small-small) and the cable is as tight as it can be and still allow it to hit the lower stop when shifting down, then total travel is not the problem. The cable is already moving the derailleur as much as it can manage with the levers being used. Neither is the problem that the chainwheel is too far out, as the derailleur is not hitting the stop.

We need to know if derailleur and levers are OE, or if you don't know then what model the levers are. We don't even know if this is friction or indexed system. The levers may not have the travel that the derailleur requires. A less likely cause is far too much cable housing, especially if low quality, which would take up much of the lever movement before actuating the derailleur.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:15 PM   #16
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The FD is an Ultegra FD-6600. Piecing this together withe the OTHER thread he started about the same issue (%*^%$*&(*!!!), it appears he is building a bike with a complete 6600 drivetrain, so compatibility shouldn't be a concern.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:20 PM   #17
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Yes, after I posted I saw the other thread, with a different title, was about the same problem. Someone apparently does not know how to delete.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:21 PM   #18
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I think the hanger has been bent back slightly. I've had this problem on my Colnago. Try to bend it back forward gently. This will swing the tail of the derailleur out. You could do this with a large crescent wrench or channel locks. It won't take much force to do the job.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:25 PM   #19
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Does the bike have a braze-on derailleur? I've seen the brazed-on flange, for the lack of better term, in the wrong locations.
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Old 01-21-14, 04:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
Yes, after I posted I saw the other thread, with a different title, was about the same problem.
The two threads have been merged.
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Old 01-21-14, 04:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demoncyclist View Post
Can you move the original FD by hand and make it work? That would be my first step. If so, then it is more likely a cable tension problem. Make sure that the front brifter is claicked all the way to the low position before attaching the cable, or it will never work.
Hmmm, update
after some fiddling, I got this unit shifting pretty smoothly with the origingal derailleur the FD-6600. That is to say, on the stand. There are two distinct clicks going up to the big ring.
And by just pulling the cable, it also shifts up pretty smoothly.

But when I take it out on the road to test it, it again hesitates going to the big ring. I have to really hold it or press the big lever hard to make it ride up. (And I dare not try the cable pulling test out on the road I don't think. It's so cold here that I can barely think)

Why would it shift better on the stand than out on a road test.

(and I can imagine that trying to use a 6500 might not be a good long term solution as it might not respect the designers compatibility vision. But I just wanted to try it to see if there was something about the FD itself)

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Old 01-21-14, 04:57 PM   #22
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yea, sorry. I messed that up. since I thought I had two different questions stemming from the same setup, I thought I should post them separately. But I got the threads confused I think. (Or else a moderator kindly merged them for me. that seems to be what's happened. ) sorry for the confusion.
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Old 01-21-14, 05:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
I think the hanger has been bent back slightly. I've had this problem on my Colnago. Try to bend it back forward gently. This will swing the tail of the derailleur out. You could do this with a large crescent wrench or channel locks. It won't take much force to do the job.
Hmmm, That's a good suggestion.
but is that wise on an aluminum frame? I might take this to a frame guy.
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Old 01-21-14, 05:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
We need to know if derailleur and levers are OE, or if you don't know then what model the levers are. We don't even know if this is friction or indexed system..
Sorry , I should have been more complete.
All original Ultegra 6600
confirming just now, shifters are ST6600, FD6600....
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Old 01-21-14, 05:10 PM   #25
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Cant figure it out, ? I assume Toronto has Bike shops , get more than online guesses ..
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