Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-17-14, 03:46 PM   #1
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
A look a the Sturmey Archer 5 speed wide range

I know I promised this update a long time ago. Finally got around to it. This video shows the design changes in the wide ratio hub vs the ball lock type.

Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 04:58 PM   #2
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Hmm S-RF5(N) is a narrow width of 111 mm and was wondering of its interchangeability
with The other 3 speeds Brompton now gets from S-A..

Diver looks like what is used in the BWR, 9 spline + snap ring groove, so 2 cog half step able ?

same 5 ratios 256% also in 28 hole hubshell ..

havent seen it in distributors stocklists though .. may be Near vapor.. but in OEM truckload quantities..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 10:18 PM   #3
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Hmm S-RF5(N) is a narrow width of 111 mm and was wondering of its interchangeability
with The other 3 speeds Brompton now gets from S-A..

Diver looks like what is used in the BWR, 9 spline + snap ring groove, so 2 cog half step able ?

same 5 ratios 256% also in 28 hole hubshell ..

havent seen it in distributors stocklists though .. may be Near vapor.. but in OEM truckload quantities..
So far, UBS doesn't show the N type on their product listing, in stock or otherwise.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 10:30 PM   #4
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Another good job from Dan Burkhart productions.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 10:47 PM   #5
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 26,692
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Dan, does Sturmey Archer know about these nice videos you make? I'm sure they'd be glad to know.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.

Last edited by noglider; 07-22-14 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Punctuation
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 10:49 PM   #6
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Another good job from Dan Burkhart productions.
Thank you very much.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-14, 10:52 PM   #7
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Dan, does Sturmey Archer know about these nice videos you make. I'm sure they'd be glad to know.
I don't know if they do or not. I'm just doing it for the fun of it.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-14, 08:59 AM   #8
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 26,692
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I'll see if I can notify them. I think they'll be pleased. Let me know if you don't want me to.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-14, 10:45 AM   #9
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'll see if I can notify them. I think they'll be pleased. Let me know if you don't want me to.
Sure, I have no objections.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 07:11 PM   #10
bgrantca
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi There- Are the S-A 5-sp bar-end shifters really not compatible with an SA XRF-5 hub that came with trigger shifters? I've been struggling with gear adjustments then saw your video that states these are not cross-compatible. Other forums speak in detail about the amount of cable-pull S-A hubs require etc with no mention of this. I also never saw a hub for sale with bar-ends included or spec'd, but several LBS' carry the bar-end shifter a la carte. Help!
bgrantca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 07:26 PM   #11
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
Hi There- Are the S-A 5-sp bar-end shifters really not compatible with an SA XRF-5 hub that came with trigger shifters? I've been struggling with gear adjustments then saw your video that states these are not cross-compatible. Other forums speak in detail about the amount of cable-pull S-A hubs require etc with no mention of this. I also never saw a hub for sale with bar-ends included or spec'd, but several LBS' carry the bar-end shifter a la carte. Help!
If your hub says XRF5 with no w after it the bar end shifters are not compatible. The cable pull is different.
Here is the cable pull over all and increments for the old version.
over all cable pull is 22.2 mm
1st to 2nd -6.8
2nd to 3rd -3.9
3rd to 4th -5.9
4th to 5th -5.6
And here is the wide range.
Over all 20.6
1st to 2nd-7.3
2nd to 3rd-3.6
3rd to 4th-3.6
4th to 5th-6.1
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 09:16 PM   #12
bgrantca
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

- I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
- Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
-When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
- if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

thanks!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo.jpg (96.3 KB, 13 views)
bgrantca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 06:56 AM   #13
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

- I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
- Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
-When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
- if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

thanks!

The yellow indicator should be the correct one for the standard length guide nut which appears to be what you have based on your photo. Switching to a short guide nut requires a navy blue indicator.
Setting the colored indicator line at the axle end in second gear is the correct setting, but you must first ensure both hub and shifter are in second gear when checking this setting. Ensure the cable housings are fully seated at both ends, and work the shifter up and down a few times while spinning the cranks.
If you still can't get it to work right, try adjusting it with the shifter in the first gear position so that the indicator can be pulled out just a tiny bit.
Also, when screwing the indicator into the hub, it's important to back it of at least a half turn from the fully screwed in position to prevent binding in the guide nut.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 11:01 AM   #14
Matariki
Not quite there yet
 
Matariki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monkey Bottom, NC
Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes + an ICE trike
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the posted video, Dan. I've put about 5000 miles on the XRD5(w) on my commuting bike and like it very much.

bgrantca: I use the bar mounted thumb shifter on mine. I adjust it so 2nd gear is notched in at least tension. In other words, I shift to second, and then nudge the lever back toward 3rd while still indexed. I then adjust the cable so the outside edge of the yellow indicator band is even with the end of the axle.
Matariki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 11:19 AM   #15
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you know anything about problems being reported with the new SA 5 speeds? I believe it was either tcs or Mr. IGH that mentioned it on this site. I've been planning to buy one and that put me off. I have an old S5-2 that works very well for me.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 12:09 PM   #16
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
Thread Starter
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Do you know anything about problems being reported with the new SA 5 speeds? I believe it was either tcs or Mr. IGH that mentioned it on this site. I've been planning to buy one and that put me off. I have an old S5-2 that works very well for me.
I have no first hand experience with problems related to this hub, but Aaron of Aaron't bike repair in Seattle reported several instances of mushroomed sliding keys in the early production models. He seemed to think the material was too soft.
As for other problems, I'm not sure who it was, but I remember somebody taking the planetary sub assembly apart and the hub failed after re assembly.
My guess is that this individual was unaware of the need to phase stepped planetary gears, and as this is meant to be a non serviceable unit, I don't know if it even has timing marks.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 01:21 PM   #17
jason_h
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

- I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
- Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
-When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
- if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

thanks!
bgrantca, can't say this is the case with the 5-speed, but I find that for the current 3-speed hubs, I get better adjustment of the hub if I ignore the location of the indicator mark and instead set up the cable pull so that in low gear (1st gear), the chain is pull almost all the way out of the hub less one half of a chain pin (approx. 1/16"). With this setup, on 2nd gear the indicator is pulled out of the axle about 1/16" also, and in 3rd gear the cable has no tension and flops around. I found I couldn't have any tension on the cable in 3rd gear if I wanted the hub to be properly adjusted. To keep the cable from flopping around too much in 3rd gear, I installed a fulcrum clip/sleeve just in front of the nut on the barrel adjuster to try to limit the nut from banging against the paint. I also wrapped electrical tape around the nut to provide some protection as well.
jason_h is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.