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  1. #1
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    A look a the Sturmey Archer 5 speed wide range

    I know I promised this update a long time ago. Finally got around to it. This video shows the design changes in the wide ratio hub vs the ball lock type.

    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Hmm S-RF5(N) is a narrow width of 111 mm and was wondering of its interchangeability
    with The other 3 speeds Brompton now gets from S-A..

    Diver looks like what is used in the BWR, 9 spline + snap ring groove, so 2 cog half step able ?

    same 5 ratios 256% also in 28 hole hubshell ..

    havent seen it in distributors stocklists though .. may be Near vapor.. but in OEM truckload quantities..

  3. #3
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Hmm S-RF5(N) is a narrow width of 111 mm and was wondering of its interchangeability
    with The other 3 speeds Brompton now gets from S-A..

    Diver looks like what is used in the BWR, 9 spline + snap ring groove, so 2 cog half step able ?

    same 5 ratios 256% also in 28 hole hubshell ..

    havent seen it in distributors stocklists though .. may be Near vapor.. but in OEM truckload quantities..
    So far, UBS doesn't show the N type on their product listing, in stock or otherwise.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  4. #4
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    Another good job from Dan Burkhart productions.
    FB
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

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  5. #5
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Dan, does Sturmey Archer know about these nice videos you make? I'm sure they'd be glad to know.
    Last edited by noglider; 07-22-14 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Punctuation
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  6. #6
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Another good job from Dan Burkhart productions.
    Thank you very much.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  7. #7
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Dan, does Sturmey Archer know about these nice videos you make. I'm sure they'd be glad to know.
    I don't know if they do or not. I'm just doing it for the fun of it.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  8. #8
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I'll see if I can notify them. I think they'll be pleased. Let me know if you don't want me to.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  9. #9
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I'll see if I can notify them. I think they'll be pleased. Let me know if you don't want me to.
    Sure, I have no objections.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  10. #10
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    Hi There- Are the S-A 5-sp bar-end shifters really not compatible with an SA XRF-5 hub that came with trigger shifters? I've been struggling with gear adjustments then saw your video that states these are not cross-compatible. Other forums speak in detail about the amount of cable-pull S-A hubs require etc with no mention of this. I also never saw a hub for sale with bar-ends included or spec'd, but several LBS' carry the bar-end shifter a la carte. Help!

  11. #11
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
    Hi There- Are the S-A 5-sp bar-end shifters really not compatible with an SA XRF-5 hub that came with trigger shifters? I've been struggling with gear adjustments then saw your video that states these are not cross-compatible. Other forums speak in detail about the amount of cable-pull S-A hubs require etc with no mention of this. I also never saw a hub for sale with bar-ends included or spec'd, but several LBS' carry the bar-end shifter a la carte. Help!
    If your hub says XRF5 with no w after it the bar end shifters are not compatible. The cable pull is different.
    Here is the cable pull over all and increments for the old version.
    over all cable pull is 22.2 mm
    1st to 2nd -6.8
    2nd to 3rd -3.9
    3rd to 4th -5.9
    4th to 5th -5.6
    And here is the wide range.
    Over all 20.6
    1st to 2nd-7.3
    2nd to 3rd-3.6
    3rd to 4th-3.6
    4th to 5th-6.1
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  12. #12
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    Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

    That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

    - I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
    - Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
    -When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
    - if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

    So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

    thanks!

    photo.jpg

  13. #13
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
    Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

    That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

    - I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
    - Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
    -When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
    - if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

    So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

    thanks!

    photo.jpg
    The yellow indicator should be the correct one for the standard length guide nut which appears to be what you have based on your photo. Switching to a short guide nut requires a navy blue indicator.
    Setting the colored indicator line at the axle end in second gear is the correct setting, but you must first ensure both hub and shifter are in second gear when checking this setting. Ensure the cable housings are fully seated at both ends, and work the shifter up and down a few times while spinning the cranks.
    If you still can't get it to work right, try adjusting it with the shifter in the first gear position so that the indicator can be pulled out just a tiny bit.
    Also, when screwing the indicator into the hub, it's important to back it of at least a half turn from the fully screwed in position to prevent binding in the guide nut.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  14. #14
    Not quite there yet Matariki's Avatar
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    Thanks for the posted video, Dan. I've put about 5000 miles on the XRD5(w) on my commuting bike and like it very much.

    bgrantca: I use the bar mounted thumb shifter on mine. I adjust it so 2nd gear is notched in at least tension. In other words, I shift to second, and then nudge the lever back toward 3rd while still indexed. I then adjust the cable so the outside edge of the yellow indicator band is even with the end of the axle.
    Any information, no matter how good, will always under-represent reality.
    -paraphrasing J a r o n L a n i e r

  15. #15
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Do you know anything about problems being reported with the new SA 5 speeds? I believe it was either tcs or Mr. IGH that mentioned it on this site. I've been planning to buy one and that put me off. I have an old S5-2 that works very well for me.

  16. #16
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    Do you know anything about problems being reported with the new SA 5 speeds? I believe it was either tcs or Mr. IGH that mentioned it on this site. I've been planning to buy one and that put me off. I have an old S5-2 that works very well for me.
    I have no first hand experience with problems related to this hub, but Aaron of Aaron't bike repair in Seattle reported several instances of mushroomed sliding keys in the early production models. He seemed to think the material was too soft.
    As for other problems, I'm not sure who it was, but I remember somebody taking the planetary sub assembly apart and the hub failed after re assembly.
    My guess is that this individual was unaware of the need to phase stepped planetary gears, and as this is meant to be a non serviceable unit, I don't know if it even has timing marks.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    Rule #12: The correct number of bikes to own is n+1

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgrantca View Post
    Thanks Dan for the quick response. Actually it is an RXF5 (w), so in theory should work.

    That begs the next question -- What's the secret to getting this hub adjusted? I have read numerous threads on this (plus the lame S-A literature) that all make it sound pretty simple, but to no avail. I'm a fair-to-middling amateur, have built this hub into a wheel, have installed and adjusted many derailleurs, and tried repeatedly to get this hub adjusted. A few factors:

    - I have done the 'stripped down' nut/cable/indicator configuration (minus the guide or big pulley and cover--see picture) which I've read works fine (true?)
    - Based on the S-A literature, I've set the yellow band on the indicator chain flush with the axle end at "2nd gear" (2nd to highest tension based on some threads trying to clarify that ambiguity).
    -When I do that then shift to 5th gear (least tension) the cable has less than zero tension -- flopping around. Shifting to 4th on the bar-end does nothing.
    - if I set the cable in 5th to have no play but no tension, the cable is taught and maxed out in the 2nd position and 1st (on the shifter) is unavailable.

    So I seem to be caught between 'correct' at 2nd and 'correct' at 5th. I have hunted in vain for a compromise sweet spot. any thoughts? do I have a bum hub or shifter? Am I overlooking something stupid? Any insights appreciated.

    thanks!
    bgrantca, can't say this is the case with the 5-speed, but I find that for the current 3-speed hubs, I get better adjustment of the hub if I ignore the location of the indicator mark and instead set up the cable pull so that in low gear (1st gear), the chain is pull almost all the way out of the hub less one half of a chain pin (approx. 1/16"). With this setup, on 2nd gear the indicator is pulled out of the axle about 1/16" also, and in 3rd gear the cable has no tension and flops around. I found I couldn't have any tension on the cable in 3rd gear if I wanted the hub to be properly adjusted. To keep the cable from flopping around too much in 3rd gear, I installed a fulcrum clip/sleeve just in front of the nut on the barrel adjuster to try to limit the nut from banging against the paint. I also wrapped electrical tape around the nut to provide some protection as well.

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