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Are skinny road bike tyres usually BRUTAL?

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Are skinny road bike tyres usually BRUTAL?

Old 02-22-14, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadTire
Hopefully I'll remember to avoid Matrix rims, and am smart enough to stay with rim/tire combinations that work smoothly together. If changing rims would solve most of the problems I wouldn't hesitate longer than my pocketbook allows.
"Matrix" was Trek's house brand rims and were OEM on most Trek bicycles before they started to used the Bontrager name. Having owned a couple and worked on several more Treks with Matrix rims I never found them particularly difficult to install and remove tires. Some tires were a struggle and others fit fairly easily but that's true of all the other make rims I've dealt with.
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Old 02-22-14, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
"Matrix" was Trek's house brand rims and were OEM on most Trek bicycles before they started to used the Bontrager name. Having owned a couple and worked on several more Treks with Matrix rims I never found them particularly difficult to install and remove tires. Some tires were a struggle and others fit fairly easily but that's true of all the other make rims I've dealt with.
OMG Are my Bontrager's really Matrix? (in other words, did I just post something really stupid?
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Old 02-22-14, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadTire
OMG Are my Bontrager's really Matrix? (in other words, did I just post something really stupid?
Yes, and no. Both are private label brands owned and used by Trek. But Trek doesn't make rims, they just label rims that other make. And there's no reason to assume they have the same profiles or are even made in the same factory. In fact there's no reason to assume that a Bontrager rim made in 2014 will be made by the same factory as one made in the past.
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Old 02-22-14, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Yes, and no. Both are private label brands owned and used by Trek. But Trek doesn't make rims, they just label rims that other make. And there's no reason to assume they have the same profiles or are even made in the same factory. In fact there's no reason to assume that a Bontrager rim made in 2014 will be made by the same factory as one made in the past.
Is this right? I don't know about now but back in the 80's and 90's I was told Trek actually made their own rims in-house. I believe we have a poster (Andy?) who actually worked for Trek back then and may be able to confirm or refute this.
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Old 02-22-14, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
Is this right? I don't know about now but back in the 80's and 90's I was told Trek actually made their own rims in-house. I believe we have a poster (Andy?) who actually worked for Trek back then and may be able to confirm or refute this.
I don't know about the early years, but today's Treks are mainly made in the Orient. They don't make rims in the USA, and ship them to Taiwan or China to be built into wheels and put on bikes.
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Old 02-22-14, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
I have had a few tires that were too tight for plastic tire levers (they broke) & I end up carefully using flat blade screwdrivers.
I used to have metal tire levers but can't find them.
Read my earlier post, I gave you website that sells those steel levers except those are encased in plastic to protect soft aluminum rims.
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Old 02-22-14, 01:10 PM
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You must have Puncture resistants like armadillo they are usually tough but do it a few times and they become pliable
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Old 02-22-14, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Help me out, you're not in OZ so GPOC isn't Gov't Prices oversight commission, and you're not a gold prospector in CO, so is GPOC a geriatric project oversight committee or what?
It's short for "Government Point of Contact". He is basically THE government man ("civilian") in charge of directly managing the project I support. I know he'd been a cyclist and used to ride in, but he's perpetually busy so all I've heard were a few stories (including one where he and his peleton had to trudge home on road bikes during a surprise snow storm back in the 70's or 80's - snow up to the pedals).

To all: Yeah, these are US made Matrix rims, probably stock to the bike - which is a 91 Trek 1200. The alu framed, bright yellow one with the grey looking "static" effect...or however one can describe it.

I did all the usual tricks - inflating the tube, using a small tube, etc. but this was unusually hard. These Conti tyres are the brown walls but they're pretty worn so it's time to replace them. Hoping money evens out soon - it's been a pretty brutal winter - so I've got a few in mind. Yellow walls to match the frame sounds like a nice idea. Just need to get a yellow and black saddle to replace the brick-red and black scrounging special I've got on it now.

I hadn't thought about lubing the tyre or expanding it in the dryer. I suppose I can give that a shot at least next time.

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Old 02-22-14, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
Is this right? I don't know about now but back in the 80's and 90's I was told Trek actually made their own rims in-house. I believe we have a poster (Andy?) who actually worked for Trek back then and may be able to confirm or refute this.
When I was at Trek in the early-mid 80's, "Matrix" rims were made in Waterloo, not in the main factory, but in the original old red barn downtown where Trek first started. The extrusions were made to spec by another company (don't remember which, exactly) and shipped to Waterloo as straight stock, where they were rolled, pinned and drilled. Some models were sent off-site again for anodizing and/or heat treatment, then returned to Waterloo to be built into wheels. The Waterloo production should have a "Made in USA" label:




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Old 02-22-14, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnershcyclist
You must have Puncture resistants like armadillo they are usually tough but do it a few times and they become pliable
Unless their the wire beaded ones and then they don't go on so well their entire life. That's the only reason I have a VAR is because I use to buy those tires when I lived in goathead city and no combination of tire or liner or tube worked real well except the Armadillos All Condition tires
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Old 02-22-14, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
When I was at Trek in the early-mid 80's, "Matrix" rims were made in Waterloo, not in the main factory, but in the original old red barn downtown where Trek first started. The extrusions were made to spec by another company (don't remember which, exactly) and shipped to Waterloo as straight stock, where they were rolled, pinned and drilled. Some models were sent off-site again for anodizing and/or heat treatment, then returned to Waterloo to be built into wheels. The Waterloo production should have a "Made in USA" label:
John, thanks for the clarification. I had those Matrix ISO C-II rims on my 1992 Trek 1420 and they were labeled "Made in USA". I don't remember installing or removing tires to be particularly difficult with them.
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Old 02-22-14, 06:08 PM
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I have two sets of Matrix ISO11's here. My son rides one set . They are the toughest rim to mount tires on, tougher than any other rim in my experience. I would rather glue a tubular. This is a rim where you take three tire irons with you to go ride as there is a good chance you might bust one, that's if you can get it between the rim tape and bead to lift it over the edge of the rim. They are on my upgrade list for sure!.
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Old 02-23-14, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't for the simple reason that tires that need to be jacked on a bear to remove. I'm very selective about tire/rim combinations since I consider the ability to fix a flat in the dark and cold (and probably rain) with cold half numb fingers a prerequisite.

OTOH, I've come upon people stranded and struggling, and ended up bending or breaking tire levers trying to get tires off.

There's zero technical benefit to tires and rims that make mounting that hard, but as long as people accept it, we'll only see more.
I know what you say is true, but what is there to do? You have the wheels. You have the tires. Are you going to chuck it all and go in search of an easy mounting combination? I share the frustration and have since the early '80s when the Specialized Turbo tires first came out (THAT was a tough tire to mount). It doesn't seem to be getting better. If anything it is just getting worse. So shouldn't all of us in this fix know how to deal with it and avail ourselves of the solution? I know I sound like a broken record, but having the VAR tool (I'm on my third one; the first one wore out and half of the second one got left on the road side - my bad.) since way back when has allowed me to get every tire on and every tire off, every time without fail and without damaging the rims, tires or tubes. I don't know about dark, rain and cold. I'm sure those conditions HAVE been included, I just can't remember when. All I can say is that as long as hard to mount and dismount tires/rims are going to be the rule, I'm carrying the VAR.
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Old 02-23-14, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I know what you say is true, but what is there to do? You have the wheels. You have the tires. Are you going to chuck it all and go in search of an easy mounting combination? ....
Yes, I understand the problem, and I've never been a believer in scrapping rideable parts. In my circle we always considered it bad karma to fix what wasn't broken or waste good usable parts in favor of "better".

However the answer depends on where and how one rides. If riding far (beyond bus/taxi.friend pickup range) from home you have to weight the risk of getting stranded by a flat. As I said, I've seen people so stranded because the tire was so tight they couldn't slide a tire lever under it out on the road.

The real answer lies in not accepting this nonsense in the first place. Dealers know which rims and tires are always tight, and should complain to their suppliers, especially to bike companies using them OEM. They need to score them negatively when purchasing, and let the vendors know that it's an issue that could cost sales. Tipping the financial scales from stuff that doesn't work to stuff that does eventually will get better, more serviceable product out there.

Consumers can start the ball rolling by simply refusing to buy tight tires, and or returning some of the grief of tight rims to dealers by complaining clearly and consistently until the message is heard.

I ride tubulars on the road, so the only wired-on ties I buy are mtn tires, but when a dealer friend suggests a tire I know to be tight, I pass and tell him why.
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Old 02-23-14, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I know what you say is true, but what is there to do? You have the wheels. You have the tires. Are you going to chuck it all and go in search of an easy mounting combination? I share the frustration and have since the early '80s when the Specialized Turbo tires first came out (THAT was a tough tire to mount). It doesn't seem to be getting better. If anything it is just getting worse. So shouldn't all of us in this fix know how to deal with it and avail ourselves of the solution? I know I sound like a broken record, but having the VAR tool (I'm on my third one; the first one wore out and half of the second one got left on the road side - my bad.) since way back when has allowed me to get every tire on and every tire off, every time without fail and without damaging the rims, tires or tubes. I don't know about dark, rain and cold. I'm sure those conditions HAVE been included, I just can't remember when. All I can say is that as long as hard to mount and dismount tires/rims are going to be the rule, I'm carrying the VAR.
When Specialized introduced the first folding clincher, the Turbo, I ran, not walked, to the bike shop and got new clincher rims and those tires because I was tired of the tubular hassle and I never looked back. I got a set of Mavic (can't remember the model, they had a red label if that matters), and I did not have a big deal getting the tires on, the biggest issue I had initially was dealing with the flopping sidewalls! In fact I bought a set of aluminum tire irons that bent pretty easily but never had that happen with those, so I don't recall them being a pain to put on. Other than using Specialized Armadillo folding tire and Pasela TG wire beaded tires I never had to use the VAR, most of the time I can put them on by hand like the video shows, however I found out it's faster using the QuikStik for both removing and installing a tire then it is to use hands only.
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