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Old 03-06-14, 07:22 PM   #1
ClarkinHawaii
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I've been BEAT UP by Mr. Tuffy

A few years ago I bought a set of Mr. Tuffy tire liners in the appropriate size for 700-23. Recently came across them and decided to install.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

So i searched out all the info I could find on here--the only method that sounds as though it might work is contact cement--basically you make a row of cement dots around the middle of the inside of the tire and paint one side of the Tuffy with the cement and then mate them up.

However, I'm wondering if the 700-23 tire isn't just TOO narrow for ANYTHING to work. I think the contact cement guy was talking about mtb tires.

Has anybody successfully installed these buggers in a 700-23 and is willing to testify regarding his/her prowess in this matter?

Unless I know that it's at least possible, I'm not going to waste any more time on them . .

And no, I would never buy them again--I have some Panaracer liners on order . . .

I also bought a roll of gorilla tape. Several people have said that it "should work" as a tire liner, but didn't see anybody who actually did it. If I wanted to go this route, should I put the tape strip on the tube or try to cram it into the tire?

Also i have a set of Gatorhardshells in the mail and am now convinced that better tires are the way to go. The liners are for use with some cheap tires that I already have--stocked up on a ridiculously low price and now wish I hadn't.

Because of my own situation and location, a flat tire would be inconceivably horrible (or at least very inconvenient), to be avoided at all costs! Thanks for your help.
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Old 03-06-14, 07:48 PM   #2
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i didn't read your whole post. i stopped when it was suggested the only way to install them was using contact cement.

i been using them on all my bikes (7) for the last 10 years or so. i don't use anything with them. just slide it between tube and tire.

BTW, tires sizes are 20mm-32mm.
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Old 03-06-14, 08:44 PM   #3
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OK. sounds like you've got it--

So if I understand you correctly, you put one bead of the tire on the rim, insert the tube, inflate it just enough to hold its shape, and insert MT from the open side. What about the end--do you try to trim it or somehow bevel down the end which is in contact with the tube (supposedly unless one does this it will wear on the tube and eventually cause a puncture???) or just overlap it and leave it as it came out of the package? Do you powder the works before you start?

Since you have been successful, I'm all ears!
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Old 03-06-14, 08:57 PM   #4
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Use as wide a tire that will fit within your bike's frame/brakes. Consider using belted tires. Keep them pumped up and brush off the tread cap periodically.

Installing Tuffys can be hard without practice. The narrower the tire the more challenging it gets. The Tuffy is a two dimensional ribbon that needs to be placed in a three dimensional trough. It likes to reposition itself and ride up the sidewalls. The skinnier the tire is the more reluctant the Tuffy will be in fitting above the tube and under the tread cap consistently. If the installation isn't straight the first time the strip will take a set and never be straight again. I've seen MANY Tuffys that snake back and forth.

The other issue with Tuffys is that they can cause the flat you're trying to avoid. Where the ends overlap can chafe on the tube and cut/sand a hole into it. They add a chunk of weight and harsh rolling too.

When i have to install then i remove the tire completely from the rim. I place the Tuffy in the tire doing the best I can to keep it straight. I put the strip's mid point at the location of the tube's valve. With the tube partially inflated (not yet expanded but a touch more then typical) and starting at the valve the tube gets placed in the casing, on top of the strip. Work around the circumference placing the tube in the casing and working the strip to keep it centered and not pushing the tube out of the casing. Then when complete mount one side of the tire onto the rim. Check for the strip being centered. Try to mount the second bead, deflating the tube only as much as needed. When all is mounted on the rim add a touch of air, enough to have the tire take shape but remain soft. Then roll the wheel/tire along the floor to compress the tire a little bit all around the circumference. Then fully inflate the tire.

With luck and some skill the strip will be as centered under the tread cap as possible. Andy.
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Old 03-06-14, 10:20 PM   #5
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let's see...

i put one bead of the tire on, then inflate the tube just enough to take shape, then put tube stem through hole in rim, and begin tucking tube into tire. when the tube is all tucked in, i take the middle of the tuffy and slip it between the tire and tube at the valve and work it between the tire and tube till the end, then go back to the valve and do the other end, to the end. they overlap where ever they end up overlapping.

i've cut them off a few times but really can't say it makes any difference. and yes, i suppose they DO cause flats from time to time, i think mine have been caused by the low PSI i run in my 23mm tires (80PSI), but in the end i get a lot fewer flats with the liners than without and can run my tires right down to the casings and know i still have some good protection against flats right up till the end. plus i can buy cheap, flat prone tires if i want to.

BTW, i don't think i have ever had anything go through the regular Tuffys, but the Tuffy Ultra-lites have been breached a couple of times.
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Old 03-06-14, 10:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Use as wide a tire that will fit within your bike's frame/brakes. Consider using belted tires. Keep them pumped up and brush off the tread cap periodically.

Installing Tuffys can be hard without practice. The narrower the tire the more challenging it gets. The Tuffy is a two dimensional ribbon that needs to be placed in a three dimensional trough. It likes to reposition itself and ride up the sidewalls. The skinnier the tire is the more reluctant the Tuffy will be in fitting above the tube and under the tread cap consistently. If the installation isn't straight the first time the strip will take a set and never be straight again. I've seen MANY Tuffys that snake back and forth.

The other issue with Tuffys is that they can cause the flat you're trying to avoid. Where the ends overlap can chafe on the tube and cut/sand a hole into it. They add a chunk of weight and harsh rolling too.

When i have to install then i remove the tire completely from the rim. I place the Tuffy in the tire doing the best I can to keep it straight. I put the strip's mid point at the location of the tube's valve. With the tube partially inflated (not yet expanded but a touch more then typical) and starting at the valve the tube gets placed in the casing, on top of the strip. Work around the circumference placing the tube in the casing and working the strip to keep it centered and not pushing the tube out of the casing. Then when complete mount one side of the tire onto the rim. Check for the strip being centered. Try to mount the second bead, deflating the tube only as much as needed. When all is mounted on the rim add a touch of air, enough to have the tire take shape but remain soft. Then roll the wheel/tire along the floor to compress the tire a little bit all around the circumference. Then fully inflate the tire.

With luck and some skill the strip will be as centered under the tread cap as possible. Andy.
One thing I'd add is to pay attention to how the strip is coiled in the package. The end of the strip that forms the very inside coil should not touch the tube when you're done. It should be the outer segment of the overlap. This way, it won't dig into the tube. Not sure if the inflated pressure of the tube will negate this "coil digging", but it can't hurt.
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Old 03-06-14, 10:25 PM   #7
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Wow--Thanks, Andy, for all the detail. It sounds like you work in a shop where you "have to" install them sometimes. Would you ever mess with them if you didn't "have to"?
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Old 03-07-14, 07:28 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the good info, everybody. Looks like we're going to have a rainy day today, so I'm gonna go a few more rounds with Mr. Tuffy. And the winner is . . .
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Old 03-07-14, 11:09 AM   #9
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They caused more flats then protected me from.....at least for me.If I rode off road I MIGHT try them again,otherwise I just buy good tires.
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Old 03-07-14, 12:11 PM   #10
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Ive used the bench grinder when I was installing them to taper the cut end as much as possible

the square cut is an abrasion point ..

roll the tire around deflated, that should center the tuffy band ..

I too stopped using them ... schwalbe marathon plus / greenguard molds similar polymer under the tread ..

23 tires, on go fast bikes , I Just replace the tube when punctured ..

I dont commute on that kind of wheel ..

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Old 03-08-14, 05:31 PM   #11
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Thanks, Guys.
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Old 03-08-14, 06:18 PM   #12
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Tyre liners are the work of Satan.

If you want to compromise comfort, grip, rolling resistance and weight for puncture resistance, the proper way to do it is with a puncture-resistant tyre.

Gatorskins are pretty good (dunno about the Gatorhardshell; probably an improvement), offering a decent compromise between the above factors.

Schwalbe Marathons are the one to go for if puncture protection is everything, and other tyre qualities be damned.

Also, 23mm tyres are yesterday - turns out 25s and 28s are actually faster.
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Old 03-08-14, 11:42 PM   #13
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Tyre liners are the work of Satan.
HAHA--Installing them certainly is . . .
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Old 03-09-14, 07:24 PM   #14
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Because of my own situation and location, a flat tire would be inconceivably horrible (or at least very inconvenient), to be avoided at all costs! Thanks for your help.
^^ This is my situation when I ride during lunch breaks at work. I can't afford a flat that would make me late, Soooooooo..............

I've found nothing more reliable that Mr. Tuffies. I buy them for the next size wider, just to get extra protection.
Schwalbe Marathons are close in protection, but they are cashy and limited in design. And I've had flats with them.
Right now my work bike has cheap, $9 slicks that I love, and Mr. Tuffies. It's a 26" mtb. I'm very happy with the set-up and I don't notice any extra weight.
And if I did get a flat it would be much easier and quicker to change out the 26" slicks than any Schwalbe tire.
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Old 03-09-14, 07:33 PM   #15
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HAHA--Installing them certainly is . . .
I prefer to think that proper installation of Tuffys is the work of skilled but underpaid and often under the radar mechanics at your LBS. Andy.
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Old 03-09-14, 07:42 PM   #16
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Because of my own situation and location, a flat tire would be inconceivably horrible (or at least very inconvenient), to be avoided at all costs! Thanks for your help.
All the preparation in the world won't help you if you hit that nail or screw at the wrong angle. Flats on a 700 x 23 are a part of life. Sure, your precautions may reduce the number and frequency of occurrences, but will they eliminate them? Not a chance.

Looking back 30 years, I remember I even got an occasional flat on my old Schwinn American, with its 2" tires and basketball tubes. :-)
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Old 03-09-14, 07:50 PM   #17
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Also, 23mm tyres are yesterday - turns out 25s and 28s are actually faster.
Is that true, that they're faster? Are the winning pros all running 25s and 28s these days? I didn't know. Interesting. . . .
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Old 03-09-14, 08:44 PM   #18
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Is that true, that they're faster? Are the winning pros all running 25s and 28s these days? I didn't know. Interesting. . . .
Pros ride with what they are required to, there are very few exceptions. Pretty much your local racers are riding what the lowest cost one was or what some one gave them.

Having said that the older I get the less I care (in my personal riding life, not my professional one) about what the pros use. I've ridden 24/26mm wide tires (clincher and sew up), haven't had a large ring more then 48T on my biggest mileage bikes and still have thirtysomething of spokes on every wheel in the house.


I do see a trend towards wider tires on otherwise skinny road bikes. We do sell a lot more 25/28mm tires then we use to. AS I often tell my customers "you're a lot faster if you keep rolling." Andy.
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Old 03-10-14, 12:03 AM   #19
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Pros ride with what they are required to, there are very few exceptions. Pretty much your local racers are riding what the lowest cost one was or what some one gave them.

Having said that the older I get the less I care (in my personal riding life, not my professional one) about what the pros use. I've ridden 24/26mm wide tires (clincher and sew up), haven't had a large ring more then 48T on my biggest mileage bikes and still have thirtysomething of spokes on every wheel in the house.


I do see a trend towards wider tires on otherwise skinny road bikes. We do sell a lot more 25/28mm tires then we use to. AS I often tell my customers "you're a lot faster if you keep rolling." Andy.
Actually, the quote from 'Kimmo' was, ". . . 23mm tyres are yesterday - turns out 25s and 28s are actually faster."

I merely pointed out the obvious; if 25s and 28s were truly faster, the pros would be riding them. Sure, the riders ride what they're told to ride, but last I heard, winning still matters. Ergo, if a 25 or 28 is truly "faster" than a 23, the pro teams would have by-and-large embraced them by now.

I haven't seen that, meaning that either (a) the statement that "25s and 28s are faster" is false, or (b) the pros are riding on slow bikes.

About a month ago, someone here also claimed steel bikes are faster than carbon. He got the same answer. Don't get me wrong - I love my steelies with their 27 1/4" tires. But I don't race them. Because they are NOT faster. :-)
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Old 03-10-14, 04:39 AM   #20
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Skinnier tyres at higher pressure feel faster because they transmit higher-frequency vibrations, but all else being equal aside from the width? Nope.

Pro on 25s. Not a real big boy, either...



http://inrng.com/2013/04/reinventing-the-wheel-25mm/

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/0...ance-of-tires/

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About a month ago, someone here also claimed steel bikes are faster than carbon.
Quicker maybe - if the 'planing' effect is real, where a nice steel frame is purported to store and return energy during standing efforts, smoothing out the power delivery... but certainly not faster, unless it's faired to be as aero as a carbon frame can be.
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