Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-31-14, 09:14 AM   #1
Chesterton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY
Bikes: Pashley Roadster Sovereign, 1970 Raleigh Sports, Yuba Mundo, 1990 Schwinn World Sport
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wheel truing ergonomics

Yesterday I made my first attempt at truing my wheels using the Park Tool truing stand at the local community bike workshop. I found that I was doing a lot of bending my head sideways and squinting with one eye closed at the gap between the caliper and the rim. This left me with a stiff neck and back after a couple hours of it.

So to all you folks who true wheels all day long, what are your tips for proper ergonomic posture when using a truing stand? Do you stand straight and sight straight down the side of the rim at the caliper? Do you close one eye or just keep both open and learn to ignore the image from one side (like how I was taught to use a microscope)? Thanks for any tips.
Chesterton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 09:29 AM   #2
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Would have more bikes if I had time to ride them all. Previous bikes: 1968 Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fav), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.
Posts: 6,235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
The point of the caliper is to be able to true by sound as well as sight. The main reason to look is to judge how long the out of true portion is. But if you are looking there's not reason to bend your head sideways - as you said, just sight straight down the side of the rim. I've never found a need to close one eye.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please take the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
cny-bikeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 09:49 AM   #3
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 19,657
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 274 Post(s)
Both eyes open and as said above, listen more than look. Sight comes in right at the end for the last milli-smidgen of adjustment.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 09:53 AM   #4
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesterton View Post
.... This left me with a stiff neck and back after a couple hours of it.
Few of us spend anywhere near hours at a time working on wheels. Even when we do, there's not much strain since as CNY said, much of the work s by sound, not sight.

Otherwise, the key is to have the stand at a comfortable working height for both eyes and hands. If the stand is too low, you'll be bending over to look below to check for hop (radial true).

Here's a trick for close aligning for wobble (LT 1mm). Place a light source behind and to the side of the stand, aimed at the rim as it passes the caliper. When you spin the wheel wobble will appear as changes in brightness of the light passing under the caliper making even tiny changes obvious.

Another thing you can do is to attach a dry marker to the caliper. Adjust so it just touches the rim leaving a mark on the high areas. That ensures that you know exactly where to work. Alcohol on a rag wipes the rim clean between passes.

BTW- here's a trick for w
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 10:20 AM   #5
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,806
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Lighting ..
In the LB shop, they moved the benches around to where the daylight,

From the the windows backlit the truing stand, to see the gap easier

seems in pictures Iv seen of wheel building boiler rooms they were like a cubicle worker

Adjustable office chair & a desk.. doing it 40 hours a week ? Dial indicators are easier to see .

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-31-14 at 10:25 AM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 10:57 AM   #6
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
One more safety detail. Don't have your face inline with the spoke when you tighten it. I have never had one break, but if it does it could be a sharp projectile.
davidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 11:15 AM   #7
bike_forever
Senior Member
 
bike_forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SW OHIO
Bikes: 1995 Bob Jackson Diamond Jubilee full Campy Chorus, 70's Holdsworth Mistral Campy Super Record/ Dura mix,'05 Litespeed Siena Titanium
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I normally sit in a hydraulic lift chair with my head about even with the top of the wheel. Not sure why you are squinting... Maybe you need to have an eye examination?
bike_forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 12:13 PM   #8
Chesterton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY
Bikes: Pashley Roadster Sovereign, 1970 Raleigh Sports, Yuba Mundo, 1990 Schwinn World Sport
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for all of the advice. I'm sure it doesn't normally take two hours to true a wheel. As I said, this was my first time truing a wheel, and I'm sure the process will speed up as I learn more and get more experience with it. I did notice that by the end, I was definitely becoming more comfortable with just listening for the scraping rather than trying to eyeball the gap. I guess some of this works itself out over time, as one moves past the stage of wanting to see what the wheel looks like all the time.

I am continually amused and enlightened by FBinNY's continuing series of "1001 Bike Shop Uses for a Dry Marker".

bike_forever - I don't think my eyes necessarily need an exam (though I do wear glasses), but one thing that can complicate this kind of thing is that I am right-handed but "left-eyed". In other words, the image from my left-eye is dominant. It is more typical for this to match handedness, though not enormously unusual to diverge, I think. But it makes it harder to line up a viewpoint down the right side of something. I first discovered this when trying archery.
Chesterton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-14, 03:24 PM   #9
Metaluna
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Soma Double Cross Disc
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I have my truing stand set up so that I stand in front of it with the calipers at somewhat above chest-height. This wasn't intentional at first -- when I first got it, the only available flat surface in my cramped basement was on top of an old coffee table stacked on another old table. But it's actually quite comfortable even for 1-2 hours, and I don't get neck cramps from being hunched over the calipers. A few years later, I began to see "standing desks" starting to show up in people's offices at my workplace (this is trend in ergonomics, sitting all day is bad for you), so I guess I'm not a complete nutjob on this topic.
Metaluna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-14, 10:49 PM   #10
mrrabbit 
Senior Member
 
mrrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
Posts: 3,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1. Stool - no back support - height adjustable.
2. Good lighting with a solid consistent backdrop - preferably white.
3. A very fine edge as a dial indicator such as pieces of electrical tape - don't need the actual thing.
4. One eye - two eyes...I switch between the two.
5. I'll true side looking down the side, true vertical looking from left side, stress relief from rear - this constant alternation keeps me from getting stuck in one position.
6. Plus I have a computer off to one side for browsing, etc...

It's kinds like classic road drop bars - with multiple positions to alternate over time - keeps strain, numbness and pain away.

=8-)
__________________
4000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
mrrabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-14, 03:06 PM   #11
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Moto Fantom29 ProSL hardtail
Posts: 5,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
the kind of truing stand I have used had screw-in calipers, so I would gradually screw them in as the wheel got truer, turning them tiny amounts at a time (like 5deg) until they first scrape the turning wheel -- but don't even come close to stopping it. I would not bother to look, but just listen for the scrape -- I guess that's what others mean by 'by sound'?

I would judge my truing to be done when calipers on both sides can be screwed in sufficiently and tiny scraping occurs sporadically around the entire rim on both sides. If it is isolated/strong, then that's a localized runout that can be tuned out better.
RubeRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-14, 07:33 AM   #12
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 8,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I sit to lace and stand to true. While standing, I move around and relax. It should be a casual meditative activity and not stressful. Of course I don't do many wheels per day or do it day in and day out.
Looigi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 AM.