the sci guy 

It's too late. Stuff is buried or already gone - it's an apartment complex dumpster. Only things I threw in there were the wheels (which weren't useable) and the handlebars/brakelevers and cabling. I am getting new bars either way and the rest wasn't useable anyway. I wasn't keeping the stem mounted shifters either way because I want different kinds and they were rusted as well. I kept the stem, brakes, and FD/RD and all the cogs are still on it. But I'd like to get a new FD and RD.

See above. I am sure I won't be using them. Remember, the whole purpose of this is to get new things and learn how to put them together on the bike. I don't mind if it's a low quality 6 speed shifter. I'm not putting $400 parts on this thing. It's a learning project.

Thanks for the info, that's helpful!
I'll most likely be buying a new stem because the old one is rusty and frankly I just want to get all new parts anyway.

alcjphil

When you threw away the wheels, did you throw away the freewheel as well? If you are not going to modify the frame, you could have used it. unfortunately you didn't do your research before you started this project. If you stick with 5 speeds as you will have to with 120mm spacing you will find it almost impossible to find an indexed shifter. Any low end parts you buy will not be as good as what you already have. New stuff won't be an improvement, at the low end it will be a downgrade. So don't throw anything else away until you have done your research to figure out what you will have to buy and how much it will cost. You say that the stem was rusty, but the picture in your first post shows an aluminum alloy stem that definitely couldn't be rusty. Did you throw the stem away along with the handlebars?

the sci guy 

the number lightly etched into the bottom ofthe seatpost is 25.8.
looking at this list: Sheldon Brown's Seatpost Size Database M-Z I don't even see the Sportif. But I see other numbers similar to 25.8, so I'm guessing that's the right number.

As for the gearing, I may just simplify all this nonsense and start out with a single speed and work out the 5 speed issue later. or who knows maybe i'll like the single speed.

Taking it to the LBS today to have them remove some of the remaining parts for me and talk to them about what my options are.

alcjphil

If you decide on single speed, you won't be able to change to multi speed later without changing or modifying your rear wheel. Single speed wheels are spaced differently than wheels for multi speed freewheels. Talk to the people in the bike shop about options, and start working out how much parts are going to cost

the sci guy 

Yup I know the wheels are different. We talked about it today.

The BB was a 68mm with standard English threading. The guys at the shop got it off without much of a problem. I picked out a crankset, a new BB, an 18 tooth freewheel, and a wheel set. They are going to install the BB, though he showed me how and it doesn't look that hard, and then I'm going to put the rest on.

Still need to pick out a stem, bars, brakes, seat post and seat, cables and housing, and order the brake levers.

alecw35

I think the bike is early 80s model. going by the thick head badge. earlier bikes, had pressed metal badges that were paper thin.

there might be date stamps on the back of the brake calipers.
Also, what are the brake calipers make and model. I know that Raliegh UK bikes often had Weinmann calipers. Those had numbers such as 500, 605, 730, 810. Numbers refer to how deep the pad goes from the bolt that holds it on the bike frame. divide the number by 10 and you get the size. Of course theres some adjustment of the pads. Other manufacturers use a similar sizing scheme.
A lot of modern caliper brakes have an Allen Key fitting. Where as this bike has a regular hex nut. the Allen key fitting is a type of nut that goes inside the frame, or the fork. The brake spindle is a bit shorter. where the Allen key fitting goes, into the frame or fork, is drilled a bit larger. think its an 8mm hole, where as its usually 6mm. A fork can easily be drilled on the back. but the frame might be a pain to get a drill into the forward part of the brake bridge. I see no advantage of the Allen key fitting brakes, apart fro looks. They can be a pain, if you want to fit mudguards or other accessories. But a lot of brake come with them.

nfmisso

Based on this statement, it pretty obvious that you are not interested in learning about how to work on bikes, and are interested in spending a great deal of money without a plan.

the sci guy 

Uh...no?
It's me using my resources to learn. I'm not just going to use google and youtube videos to hack something together like a moron. I also don't have all the tools - which should be obvious since I said I've never done this before, and I'm not going to go buy 20 different bike tools right now at this moment, so instead I had them remove the old crankset , FD/RD, and BB, and talked about what kind of parts I would need, what direction (SS or gears) made more sense to pursue, and so on.

I'm not going to make a habit of building bikes every month - but I want to know most of the ins and outs of it. So I'm taking this opportunity to learn what I can, and do what I can within my comfort zone. It's an older bike and needed a little more TLC with some of the more delicate pieces than I was prepared to try. So it makes sense - to me at least - to consult with folks who know what they're doing. (which is also why I posted here as well - though some have proved to be much more helpful - and less condescending than others, and I thank those people.)

And our LBS isn't the kind of store where they try to sell you everything. The three guys that I talked to thought the bike was pretty sweet, gave me some great advice and info, and removed those few pieces at no charge. They even told me they didn't have a lot of what I needed in stock, so they referred me to another really great shop about a mile away, and they were super helpful as well, and it's where I found my crank and wheels.

I don't see what the problem is here...

the sci guy 

Ok, recommend me some brakes. I need 'long reach' to fit the 700c wheels I got. Need front and rear.
Also cabling and housing.

alcjphil

This is an example of you rushing into something without forethought. Don't think about brakes until you have your new wheels installed. Your old ones may work for you if there is 4mm of downward adjustment to the brake pads available. Once you have the wheels in the frame you can measure the amount of distance from the brake mounting hole to the rim and only then can you buy a brake that will have the correct reach for your frame. There are more than just short and long reach brakes out there

the sci guy 

Understandable, but I like to start looking and getting ideas of brands, types, etc. I'm a planner aheader - look at all the options guy. I want to see what's out there and when it's time to commit I'll make the decision. I don't want to use the old brakes.

fietsbob

9/8" OD, 26.8 - 25.8 ID. means its a some what thick wall straight gage tube frame.

high tensile-mild steel tube is left a bit thick to make it adequately strong ..

so leaving off a bunch of components , sticking to a single speed will keep the thing relatively lighter.

For the 5 speed , think Internal gear hub for the rear wheel , use the horizontal dropout for chain tension.

Drum brakes in the Hubs , you can get 3 & 5 speed IGH with drum or coaster brakes
and a front one with a Combo drum brake and a Dynohub.



OK a bit complicated .. the frame rear dropout spread is too narrow
for more than the 5 speed wheel that was in it ..


a way to get 10 speeds in is with a Sturmey Archer 5 speed Hub internally geared

and using the 2 cog driver 9 spline type , as used on Brompton's 3 by 2 hub.
so having 2 cogs .. they are made (small wheel , sizes 13,15 & 16t I know of)

mastershake916

One step at a time, it's misuse of time to look at brands right now before you know what size you need, there are plenty of other things to do right now where 100% of your effort goes towards results. Once you have the wheels, measure like other poster or I have described. Also look at Sheldon Brown's site, it is a great resource that is well-worded for mechanics of any level.

the sci guy 

Yes I've read Sheldon's site. I was reading it last year when I started biking before I ever thought of building up a bike. I've already consulted it many times.

The difference is when I ask a question here, I get a reply and can ask a follow up question, or reasoning. A website doesn't do that.

alcjphil

Well, if you had read Sheldon's site, you wouldn't have made the mistake of thinking at first that your bike had a cassette or that you could simply install a rear wheel with a 10 speed cassette on it. Go back and read the sections about brakes again. There is no guarantee that answers you get here are correct, mine included. However Sheldon was a writer who had taken the time and put in the effort to explain things clearly and correctly. My take is that you read selectively and don't always pay attention to everything you read. The stuff on Sheldon's site if you read it carefully is much more likely to be correct than the answers you get here, especially when it comes to a 30+ year old bike

Tim_Iowa

You have to measure the brake reach to determine the size of brake you need (short, long, extra long, etc). How to measure? Sheldon has you covered.

Based on my experience with 27" to 700c on my similar Raleigh, I bet the reach is in the 47-57 range ("long reach").

Tektro makes great cheapish dual pivot sidepulls, equivalent to Shimano quality, in various sizes. I used the R539 on the Raleigh. You can also look for old "long reach" sidepulls; dig in the brake bin with a measuring device handy. Weinmann 610's are the "long reach" brother of the 510 "short reach" single pivot sidepulls.

The way that you're going about this project seems pretty disjointed for most of us. But it's your bike, your time, and your money, so do what you want. It can be fun to have more enthusiasm than knowledge...

the sci guy 

Thanks for the info on the brakes. I will look at the link on Sheldon's site - I may already have who knows I can't keep track

It may seem disjointed I guess, but I took it down to just the frame. I'm not re-using any parts. Well, actually the only original bit left in there is the headset. Everything else is gone. So, I don't see how asking questions about all the pieces I need to make it a working bicycle is really all that odd. The whole point of the project is the learn how to put the pieces together, and learn the differences between the pieces in the process. I really don't see how I'm going about that incorrectly. Maybe some folks would do it in a very, very specific order, but I'm a get all the info whenever and wherever and make note kind of person. Yes I have a lot of enthusiasm because I like building/tinkering projects like this (it's why I have absurd amounts of LEGO sets, too), and obviously I lack all the knowledge - hence why I posted here, outlines my plans and ideas, and asked for assistance from people who have the knowledge. Seemed like the whole point of the forums to me...

Tim_Iowa

I've read Sheldon's site several times through as well, you can't digest it all in one pass. I still search "sheldon ____" first whenever I have a bike question.

After you've completed this project and learned some more about bikes, you'll look back and see where you created un-necessary complications along the way. But until then, have fun learning!

BF posters, like bike shop guys, really want to give you the best advice, so we'll try to understand the big picture in order to help you save time or money. That's why we get nosy and judge/mental. Many of us recall our early bike projects where we spent too much time or money for the worth of the end result, so we're just trying to save you the pain.

But that pain is part of your learning process, and learning is your goal (not time or money). I'm sure it will be a handsome bike when you're done.

the sci guy 

goldfinch

I've actually found youtube videos very helpful. It is great the bike shop took stuff off for you at no charge, but to learn it is good to do it yourself if you see yourself working on bikes in the future. Taking off derailleurs helps you know how they go on. Same with the bottom bracket, though not having proper tools is a barrier. I understand about the tools but no special tools likely were required to strip off the two derailleurs. At the very least, you should have household tools like screwdrivers, adjustable and combo wrenches, and a set of Allen/hex wrenches. It really makes sense to have a few bike specific tools, especially a chain tool and probably a cable cutter and pedal wrench. I assume as you are a rider you have pumps and tire levers.

The cables and housing will be fun and pretty easy. My best deals on cable and housing have been bulk buys of stainless cables and Jagwire cable housing. Once in a while though I go wild and use unusual colors. Ebay is a decent source and cable and housing kits can be had for decent prices.

the sci guy 

Aye, I'm not swearing off youtube, I've used it often. It's how I learned to wrap my bars. We have plenty of regular tools. I used them to strip everything else off the bike. We even have a pedal wrench. Just not any super specialty ones.


So, what do y'all think - should I stick with a quill stem or a get a quill adapter and use a new threadless stem.

mastershake916

Quill for elegant beauty, no doubt. Unless you really want to explore different handlebar types and positions, in which case the adapter would be useful. Be when is gets down to it, the adapter stem is gonna be fugly on nice old lugged steel.

the sci guy 

Yeah I'm definitely thinking quill too. BUT I'm having a hard time finding them online. I know it needs to be 1", but I'm not sure how tall. I need to get my bike back from the shop so I can measure the current old stem on it.
I'm also not sure about how much reach forward I want on it. Thinking of keeping it shorter - around 60-80mm (I'm only 5'5") - my current stem on my Cross-Check is 80mm.

I've found relatively few on amazon and nashbar. it needs to be silver so it matches the rest of the parts of the bike. with a 26 clamp.

I know people will say Ebay, but I want to buy it from an actual store not worry about some dude shipping it and it taking 14 days to show up.

any ideas?

the sci guy 

Wheels, crank, and freewheel came in today.

Just ordered bullhorns, brake levers and a quill stem this evening. Going to look at tires tomorrow.

cny-bikeman

The OP obviously has little to really learn from anyone who questions his plan, and I'm surprised that someone who purportedly is of a scientific bent rushes headlong into a project without what one would assume would be the requisite research and logic abilities of such an orientation. But here's something for others interested in "upgrading," "building," or other similar projects.

Simply installing new parts on a bike is generally a straightforward process, something that occurs relatively rarely, and can involve tools that also are rarely needed. Also relatively rare (and time intensive) is the need to spec compatible parts, especially for an older bike. So the learning involved is very little compared to the time invested. Adjustment/repair is where most of the learning takes place, and more so on used parts rather than new equipment.

One can of course say that the cost is not that important, but it's a bit of a waste to spend money on parts that will only fit an older bike, and one which very, very few would be interested in buying at all when one truly wants to upgrade to another, let alone for more than about 1/3 of the money being spent. The better way to learn would be to purchase one or two more modern bikes in better condition and then replace parts only when the originals are not functional or do not meet one's needs AFTER riding the bike.

Putting new components on a frame is especially counterproductive because such a frame has limitations both in what can be installed and in performance. TO THE OP: You said on another post you don't use your laptop much any more and got a Surface instead - let's say you've never worked on a computer before and have an older laptop - why not upgrade the hard drive, memory, put in a USB 2.0 pcmcia and wireless N, maybe a new screen, etc for the experience?