Wheel/Tire Combo
07-02-14, 04:55 PM
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Wheel/Tire Combo
I have a set of wheels (Alex R500 rims and Formula hubs). According to the online specs the ETRTO for the rims is 622. I also have a set of Thickslick tires with an ETRTO of 622. So, why is it that the tires do not fit the rims? The tires are way too small.
Thanks.
Thanks.
07-02-14, 04:58 PM
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I'd never even heard of Thickslick tires before, but this is the second post I've heard about the tires being too tight to install.
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07-02-14, 05:16 PM
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Here's a YouTube of a bloke doing a tire install with tires that are known for their difficult "tight" nature. Dunno how tight the Thickslicks are, so maybe this will help?
https://www.bikeforums.net/www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
https://www.bikeforums.net/www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
07-02-14, 05:18 PM
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The tires are so small that not only is it almost impossible to mount them on the rims, but once they are mounted they are very deformed. There are dips in the tire profile that are indicative of being stretched too far in one direction. I definitely checked to make sure the beads were seated properly. They were so tight there was no room to move the tire and I almost had to cut them to get them off the rim.
Oddly, they fit onto another wheelset with the same ETRTO (622) just fine, with only a little resistance (still had to use tire levers to get them on).
Then I tried some other tires (Kenda Kontenders) that were sitting around the garage, and they went on just fine (did not need to use tire levers).
Oddly, they fit onto another wheelset with the same ETRTO (622) just fine, with only a little resistance (still had to use tire levers to get them on).
Then I tried some other tires (Kenda Kontenders) that were sitting around the garage, and they went on just fine (did not need to use tire levers).
07-02-14, 07:26 PM
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One of the failures of the ERTRO standards is that they didn't make clear the difference between straight side (Endrich) and hook edge rims, and how the tolerances and fits are different. In a classic Endrich rim he tire seats on the shoulders to wither side of a center well (like a car tire). But a hook edge rim depends on the fit above the bad and under the hook edge of the rim.
Years ago the difference in tire type and fit was clear, but when modern hook edge rims were introduced little thought was given to the import of the change, and so even though tires and rims are supposed to be standardized, there can be significant differences on how they fit various types of rims.
Also, there's some tensile stretch of the bead material when the tire is pressurized. This is compensated for by making the hoop undersized. These days, in an effort to keep weight down, hoops (the bead) are made of thinner steel, or kevlar while the tire pressure rating has been increased. That means more stretch and therefore more compensation, meaning tighter fits.
Years ago the difference in tire type and fit was clear, but when modern hook edge rims were introduced little thought was given to the import of the change, and so even though tires and rims are supposed to be standardized, there can be significant differences on how they fit various types of rims.
Also, there's some tensile stretch of the bead material when the tire is pressurized. This is compensated for by making the hoop undersized. These days, in an effort to keep weight down, hoops (the bead) are made of thinner steel, or kevlar while the tire pressure rating has been increased. That means more stretch and therefore more compensation, meaning tighter fits.
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07-02-14, 07:31 PM
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Lennard Zinn recently wrote that both tire and wheel producers are not adhering to standardized specifications.
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 07-02-14 at 07:36 PM.
07-02-14, 07:55 PM
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IME, tire and rim combinations vary as to how difficult the mounting experience is, but, IME, there are no tire/rim combinations that are so close in size as to allow a tire to be mounted on a larger rim without completely destroying the tire and/or rim, and no tire that can be mounted and stay mounted on a smaller rim. they just aren't that close together.
although, i won't be surprised if someone claims that there is such a combination.
although, i won't be surprised if someone claims that there is such a combination.
07-02-14, 08:36 PM
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Tire tightness is crazy these days and I've been trying some different combos on my repertoire of wheels. My Mavics are more tolerant of the new (700c) tires than my Bontragers, Velocity or DT Swiss rims. Going to thinner rim tape, powder and over inflating to seat can help. But the situation sucks and something is amiss and has gotten worse with tubeless compatible tires and rims. I've had to buy and try multiple tire levers this year and brush up on technique. It was so nice to be able to use a single lever to remove and thumbs to mount.
07-02-14, 11:39 PM
#12
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I have a set of wheels (Alex R500 rims and Formula hubs). According to the online specs the ETRTO for the rims is 622. I also have a set of Thickslick tires with an ETRTO of 622. So, why is it that the tires do not fit the rims? The tires are way too small. Thanks.
/K
