Odorless Mineral Spirits......(Going away from store shelves or ???)
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,689
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,420 Posts
There are plenty of choices, but these days the labeling has gotten confusing because there's a push to reduce the VOCs vented into the air, especially from drying paint. That makes this class of solvent harder to find. or at least better hidden on shelves in areas with air pollution mandates such as the LA basin.
Sadly, as Cycocommute pointed out, this has led to some very ungreen decisions trading low impact use of recycled solvents for higher impact use of things that get into the waste water stream, or ground water aquifers. If you use a petroleum distillate with respect, and save and reuse it as some of do, it can take decades to use or evaporate one gallon. Compare that to the amount of not so green stuff you'd send down the sewer each time you cleaned your chain.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#27
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6214 Post(s)
Liked 4,212 Times
in
2,361 Posts
Ha ha.......I was waiting for cycco to chime in!!!
Cycco........have any suggestions otherwise if OMS does eventually get booted??? (Especially around my parts, I am in So Cal like others in this thread & we've got the crazy train headed by Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown himself & he'd love to have us cleaning our bikes with nothing but our own spit........properly disposed of, of course!)
Nobody's really addressed my tongue-in-cheek WD-40 comments, but I'm truly being serious. Why not just WD-40 & be done. It's also relatively cheap, WAAAAY readily available and solvent based so it's definitely gonna clean my chain & cassettes and do it all without the introduction of any water. (much like I'd be trying to accomplish w/ OMS)
**********?
TIA
Cycco........have any suggestions otherwise if OMS does eventually get booted??? (Especially around my parts, I am in So Cal like others in this thread & we've got the crazy train headed by Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown himself & he'd love to have us cleaning our bikes with nothing but our own spit........properly disposed of, of course!)
Nobody's really addressed my tongue-in-cheek WD-40 comments, but I'm truly being serious. Why not just WD-40 & be done. It's also relatively cheap, WAAAAY readily available and solvent based so it's definitely gonna clean my chain & cassettes and do it all without the introduction of any water. (much like I'd be trying to accomplish w/ OMS)
**********?
TIA
Whatever you do, don't resort to gasoline! Gasoline is specifically formulated so that it has a flash point, and ignited, at -40 F (same temperature in Celsius) Mineral spirits has a flash point of from 70 to 130F (20 to 55C). That means that it takes a lot of energy to get mineral spirits burning while it only takes a bit to get gasoline to burst into flame.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#28
Senior Member
So why are you using mineral spirits or any kind of petroleum product on your bike**********?
Get some Challenger by Reliable Products. Dissolves grease and oil like nothing else. Heck it will restore old dried out brake pads and tires. It does it all.
I recently bought an old '70's Peugeot. It was caked with dirt, grime, grease. Spayed Challenger all over the bike, and hosed it off with water. Done.
Chain, bearings, even my white bar tape cleans almost instantly with Challenger. Get rid of that nasty spirits stuff.
Get some Challenger by Reliable Products. Dissolves grease and oil like nothing else. Heck it will restore old dried out brake pads and tires. It does it all.
I recently bought an old '70's Peugeot. It was caked with dirt, grime, grease. Spayed Challenger all over the bike, and hosed it off with water. Done.
Chain, bearings, even my white bar tape cleans almost instantly with Challenger. Get rid of that nasty spirits stuff.
Even with a steel bike, you have to worry about a water based solvent system. The base acts as a medium for corrosion so you should wash it off. But you wash it off with water which cause its own problems.
I also wouldn't consider a solution with a pH of 14 to be "safe". If I were working with it in a laboratory, I'd use gloves and would have to dispose of the material as a hazardous waste, i.e. it isn't safe to pour down the drain.
And you prefer mineral spirit/oil/grease soaked rags in your house?
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mineral spirits come under a variety of names. You just have to know the various names. If nothing else, you can use "white gas" for camp stoves. It's almost the same distillate fraction as mineral spirits. Kerosene would work but, as others have said, it doesn't evaporate as quickly.
Whatever you do, don't resort to gasoline! Gasoline is specifically formulated so that it has a flash point, and ignited, at -40 F (same temperature in Celsius) Mineral spirits has a flash point of from 70 to 130F (20 to 55C). That means that it takes a lot of energy to get mineral spirits burning while it only takes a bit to get gasoline to burst into flame.
Whatever you do, don't resort to gasoline! Gasoline is specifically formulated so that it has a flash point, and ignited, at -40 F (same temperature in Celsius) Mineral spirits has a flash point of from 70 to 130F (20 to 55C). That means that it takes a lot of energy to get mineral spirits burning while it only takes a bit to get gasoline to burst into flame.
And while I can't say I'll never use gas again as a solvent, I'll certainly try to avoid it......Though it sure is funny cuz I probably used gas 90% of the time to clean stuff for my old cars......(bearings, races, axles, torsion bars, steering boxes, etc. etc. etc.)........back then gasoline was the solvent of choice.
#30
Senior Member
Mineral spirits come under a variety of names. You just have to know the various names. If nothing else, you can use "white gas" for camp stoves. It's almost the same distillate fraction as mineral spirits. Kerosene would work but, as others have said, it doesn't evaporate as quickly.
Whatever you do, don't resort to gasoline! Gasoline is specifically formulated so that it has a flash point, and ignited, at -40 F (same temperature in Celsius) Mineral spirits has a flash point of from 70 to 130F (20 to 55C). That means that it takes a lot of energy to get mineral spirits burning while it only takes a bit to get gasoline to burst into flame.
Whatever you do, don't resort to gasoline! Gasoline is specifically formulated so that it has a flash point, and ignited, at -40 F (same temperature in Celsius) Mineral spirits has a flash point of from 70 to 130F (20 to 55C). That means that it takes a lot of energy to get mineral spirits burning while it only takes a bit to get gasoline to burst into flame.
Kerosene is a rather heavier cut of petroleum, centered around C10, and is closer to what mineral spirits are. (many grades of mineral spirts could be sold as kerosene, but not vice versa) Odorless mineral spirits have nearly all the aromatics removes, are usually at the high end of the flashpoint range, and usually has no sulfur in it. Kerosene makes a fine substitute for mineral spirits as a solvent, though not so much as a paint thinner. Some keros may leave a film, but for something you're going to lubricate with oil, it wouldn't matter.
#31
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6214 Post(s)
Liked 4,212 Times
in
2,361 Posts
Coleman fuel is a mix of C5-C7 hydrocarbons. It's got a flashpoint of less than 0F. It's a very good solvent, but it's no safer than gasoline. (Largely because it is, essentially, low octane gasoline. It was sold that way until the middle of the 20th century.)
Kerosene is a rather heavier cut of petroleum, centered around C10, and is closer to what mineral spirits are. (many grades of mineral spirts could be sold as kerosene, but not vice versa) Odorless mineral spirits have nearly all the aromatics removes, are usually at the high end of the flashpoint range, and usually has no sulfur in it. Kerosene makes a fine substitute for mineral spirits as a solvent, though not so much as a paint thinner. Some keros may leave a film, but for something you're going to lubricate with oil, it wouldn't matter.
Kerosene is a rather heavier cut of petroleum, centered around C10, and is closer to what mineral spirits are. (many grades of mineral spirts could be sold as kerosene, but not vice versa) Odorless mineral spirits have nearly all the aromatics removes, are usually at the high end of the flashpoint range, and usually has no sulfur in it. Kerosene makes a fine substitute for mineral spirits as a solvent, though not so much as a paint thinner. Some keros may leave a film, but for something you're going to lubricate with oil, it wouldn't matter.
I would also disagree about whether any of these mixtures are centered around a particular carbon molecule. They are all distillation ranges and the composition would depend on the amount of a particular molecule in the petroleum from which it is being distilled. Some crude oils have more low end carbon molecules and some have higher. Without information on the particular oil being distilled, it would be impossible to predict were the range is centered.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#32
Senior Member
Your ranges are wrong. White gas is C5 to C9. Mineral spirits (white spirits) is C7 to C12. Kerosene is C6 to C16. Those extra carbons have a huge impact on the volatility of the liquid. Just one carbon can raise the boiling point by a lot. For example, going from heptane (C7) to octane (C8) causes the boiling point to rise from 98C to 126C. Going from a C12 to C16 increases the boiling point by 71C.
I would also disagree about whether any of these mixtures are centered around a particular carbon molecule. They are all distillation ranges and the composition would depend on the amount of a particular molecule in the petroleum from which it is being distilled. Some crude oils have more low end carbon molecules and some have higher. Without information on the particular oil being distilled, it would be impossible to predict were the range is centered.
I would also disagree about whether any of these mixtures are centered around a particular carbon molecule. They are all distillation ranges and the composition would depend on the amount of a particular molecule in the petroleum from which it is being distilled. Some crude oils have more low end carbon molecules and some have higher. Without information on the particular oil being distilled, it would be impossible to predict were the range is centered.
Also: white gas and good quality mineral spirits are products that sold on their consistency. Refinery feed stock changes, the process changes to keep the end product within the specification.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Llano Estacado
Posts: 3,702
Bikes: old clunker
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 684 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 105 Times
in
83 Posts
Without stating a probability distribution those ranges are meaningless. Distilled hydrocarbon products do not have hard limits on molecular weights; rather, confidence intervals define the ranges.
#34
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6214 Post(s)
Liked 4,212 Times
in
2,361 Posts
Going to admit you're dead wrong on the flash point of white gas, and its safety as solvent?
Also: white gas and good quality mineral spirits are products that sold on their consistency. Refinery feed stock changes, the process changes to keep the end product within the specification.
Also: white gas and good quality mineral spirits are products that sold on their consistency. Refinery feed stock changes, the process changes to keep the end product within the specification.
These solvents aren't made by blending alkanes that have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, etc carbons in certain proportions. They are made by taking a temperature range from crude oil where alkanes with those carbon chains boil off. Kerosene boils in the range of 150C to 275C. The material probably doesn't have much C5 in the mix since it would have boiled off first. It likely doesn't have much C20 hydrocarbon in it either because the boiling point is too low to collect that kind of hydrocarbon.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#35
Senior Member
As Cycocommute pointed out in an earlier thread, the stuff sold as turpentine these days isn't real pine tar distillate, but a petroleum based analog. I don't know this for a fact, but he raised valid points and I defer to his expertise in things chemical, and pass it along accordingly.
However, it doesn't change the other points you raised, except that where I shop "turpentine" in gallons costs about 10% more than petroleum distillate OMS.
However, it doesn't change the other points you raised, except that where I shop "turpentine" in gallons costs about 10% more than petroleum distillate OMS.
Diesel from the bowser is cheap and effective for any cleaning of chains and other components I want to do.
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,748
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 132 Times
in
78 Posts
Interesting discussion. I use kerosene myself, despite the evaporation time. Outside only.
I'll only add one thing. Odorless mineral spirits may be odorless, or close to it,
but that doesn't mean it's safe to breathe. I use something called
Turpenoid in my oil painting and although it has almost no smell, it is still not good to breathe
and the lack of any odor can lead one to be somewhat cavalier about it. I know I am sometimes.
I would use any of this stuff outdoors. Of course. Though I do paint indoors.
I'll only add one thing. Odorless mineral spirits may be odorless, or close to it,
but that doesn't mean it's safe to breathe. I use something called
Turpenoid in my oil painting and although it has almost no smell, it is still not good to breathe
and the lack of any odor can lead one to be somewhat cavalier about it. I know I am sometimes.
I would use any of this stuff outdoors. Of course. Though I do paint indoors.
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
FWIW, I did pick some up at the Depot yesterday. They had both "Brush Cleaner" but also had plenty of OMS too so I grabbed a gallon. (Who knows when/if they'll take it away from there too)
I haven't had a chance to use it yet cuz I got caught up in flat-fixing (2.....count 'em....TWO flats yesterday) and then some yard projects so I'll see if I get around to any OMS cleaning today.
I advised my neighbor too if he had any stuff he wanted to degrease safely just cuz we both split the Blue & Orange box stores similarly as they're both close by & assume they both have the same stuff. (The Depot's sprinkler selection is sucking more by the day)
I haven't had a chance to use it yet cuz I got caught up in flat-fixing (2.....count 'em....TWO flats yesterday) and then some yard projects so I'll see if I get around to any OMS cleaning today.
I advised my neighbor too if he had any stuff he wanted to degrease safely just cuz we both split the Blue & Orange box stores similarly as they're both close by & assume they both have the same stuff. (The Depot's sprinkler selection is sucking more by the day)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RandomTroll
Bicycle Mechanics
15
11-19-14 07:39 AM
thaicook
Bicycle Mechanics
16
10-07-11 06:03 AM