e0richt

so I decided to try an LBS that wasn't so local to fix the wheel and this is what I was told:

- he says that the wheel I have is NOT a tandem wheel, just an ordinary wheel (interesting)

- he says that my problem with breaking spokes is because of the tire that I am running on the wheel and because I am running 23 mm on the wheel that I am creating more torque and really should be running something like 32's. I told him that I
don't want 32's and whats the smallest I can run (he responds with 28's)... note: I have a hybrid wheel and am running bontrager race lite - hardcase tires - 23 mm

so does this sound right? and any other info would be appreciated... thanks!

see original thread for problem:
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...s-what-do.html

Drew Eckhardt 

He doesn't know anything about bicycle wheels. Spokes fail due to fatigue as tension decreases then increases with each wheel revolution (about 750 cycles per mile). The number of cycles they survive depends on average stress (which is often high to portions of the elbows which were not taken past their elastic limit during the forming operation) and magnitude of the cycle which can be high due to rider weight or loose spokes that flex back and forth like paperclips until they break. Those stresses are the same whether you're running 23mm tires or 50mm.

A bump might be what finally takes out a spoke that's about to break but is not the root cause of any problems. More compliant tires won't fix your issues.

Your chances of finding an LBS that will do a competent job building wheels is low - the cheap end of the market gets $25 wheels from QBP and can't cover the labor to build wheels, the expensive end now buys boutique wheels for a lot of money, and there isn't enough demand for wheel building for mechanics to learn to do it both well and quickly enough to make financial sense.


If you're mechanically inclined learn to deal with your own wheels. While time consuming wheel building is only as difficult as adjusting a front derailleur. Jobst Brandt tested his book _The Bicycle Wheel_ by having each of his grade school sons build a pair without any additional help. In this case replacing all the spokes in the failing side(s) will take care of your problem. I like DT spokes (Competition 2.0/1.8mm for you) because they have a smooth transition between the thicker ends and thinner middle. Sapim and Wheelsmith also make high-quality stainless steel spokes.

If not find a reputable one person operation which is likely elsewhere - in no particular order Wheels by Flemming, Peter White, or pcad.

dabac

The torque bit is entirely nonsense. And others have already gone through the failure mechanism for spoke fatigue. And how well built wheels hold up better. But I don't know if I would use 23s on a hybrid. It's kinda narrow for everyday riding - even if it isn't related to your spoke breakage issue.

LastKraftWagen

With the quality of support you've received up to this point, consider relacing the wheel yourself...Could you really do any worse? Lots of online tutorials (and books I gather, but then I can't read , and sympathetic forum posters...

And I was curious about that "tandem" wheel...

e0richt

true, but I wanted to make the hybrid as much as a road bike as I could, so I took a gamble and tried them on the rim add in that they are that "race lite" hardcase stuff (which is noticeably heavier than a normal 23mm (like continental gatorskins for example) I figured that it would work (haven't had any blowouts, bulges in the tire and actually the tires seem bombproof...

could the thin tire make it more susceptible to a rock breaking a spoke...?

so it seems the consensus is that I need to learn how to build a wheel myself...?
so there are no stock wheels sold that 36 hole, double butted spokes?
if spoke breakage is related to tension, could one purchase a wheel then do the tensioning of themselves?
guess, you would still need the tools (truing stand, tension meter, and alignment guide...

are there resources and tools that are recommended for this undertaking?

sorry for the huge amount of questions, but I really don't know much about wheel building / repair etc...
do I need a certain book? or are there web resources that truly help you build a wheel.

gregjones

I read through this site about building wheels. He is very minimalist in his approach to the required tool investment. Being a noob, like yourself, in this area I can't offer any accuracy or opinion of his methods. I did find it to be interesting and not at all a waste of time.

I have just about decided to go for it. I can buy some factory built wheels for less than the parts cost but I still wouldn't know how to build a wheel, even if I don't do all that well. I've talked to a shop in the next town and they said that if I do completely screw everything up that they will bail me out at a reasonable rate.

This book has been highly rated in a lot of building threads. I'm thinking that I will probably download it when I order pieces and read through it while UPS brings the goods.

Not a lot of help, I know. Just back-up for one paddling the same boat.

LastKraftWagen

You can certainly purchase a 36H wheel, or even a 32H well built would serve your needs, but if you already have a working hub and rim, spokes and nipples would be a less expensive route.

Tools can be minimal... Small flathead screwdriver, spoke wrench, you can use your bike frame and brakes to check truing and dish. One internet site may or may (more likely probably won't) give all the information you need, but going through several of them can go a long way.

Even though the 23mm tires seem "racy," there is growing evidence that slightly wider (25mm or 28mm for example) tires can actually be faster. The theory is that a thinner tire needs more pressure in the tire to avoid pinch flats, and there comes a point where the tire has to "bounce" over road imperfections (road texture), which makes the tire slower than a larger tire that can be run at a lower pressure which can mold over the texture and energy isn't wasted in bouncing. If you're happy with the 23s then by all means keep them, but the above theory is one reason why others keep suggesting the wider tires.

DannoXYZ 

A lot of the spoke durability depends upon the strength and stiffness of the rim. In this particular case, I recommend a slightly heavier-duty rim. Stiffer rims reduce the high-low range of tension changes the spokes experience.

And yes, you can buy an off-the-shelf wheel and adjust the tension yourself and it'll be just as good as one you built up yourself. Most of these wheels end up needing their tension doubled to be in the optimum range. That's why they fail when shops just unpack them and slap them on a bike without retensioning.

e0richt

ok, I really appreciate the responses... at one time I was thinking about learning to do a wheelbuild and I guess I have an excuse now... I will probably be back with questions and thanks for the patience...