Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    My Bikes
    Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My mech advised that a new chain will skip if put on a cogset with wear.
    I got the impression he means the chain wear will match the teeth wear and work better than to use a new chain.
    The chain and drive should be ridden out and both replaced @ the same time. I've run this chain on this cogset..maybe a year..(he didn't inspect the teeth) but basic drift was-

    -Replace the chain around 6 months and you can keep using new, any wear and it's best to run them out together and swap out both.

    Sound right?
    He's a very good mech and didn't want to chain until I do the cogset. Sounds logical.
    Also I didn't explain to him about the rear going to an 8 cluster...but he poo-pood the SRAM, said Shimano Hyperglide...was this specific to the current & cluster?

    I had him to put my 11T cog on the cluster, he gave it to me free w\ lockring!
    I just paid for the fit.
    @ 80 rpm i'm now 1.8 mph faster!

  2. #2
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Acton, West London, UK
    Posts
    3,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    either get a chain wear device(park rohloff) or get the mech to check every so often.

    ...and, yes, if the drive train is worn then you may need to replace the rings. You will need to replace the cassette and chain at the same time.
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  3. #3
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    My Bikes
    Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rings new, chain and cluster are old...except that little 11T cog.
    The chainrings single..he did not indicate that it would need replacing?

  4. #4
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Acton, West London, UK
    Posts
    3,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    [pedant] may and will [/pedant]

    sorry about that saw someone else do that and I'm enough of a geek to admire it. Yeah, I'd listen to the mech and once he's had his say ask for advice/training on maintaining your chain and wear indicators.
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    My Bikes
    Cannondale CAAD10 Team, Giant TCR
    Posts
    639
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    The chain and drive should be ridden out and both replaced @ the same time.
    Says who? Chains wear faster than cogs, cogs faster than chainrings. Measure the chain for wear using a ruler with 12 links a foot. Replace the chain when the pin extends over 1/16" past 12". Using the chain beyond this usually wears the cogs out earlier. Chains are cheaper compared to cogsets.

    -Replace the chain around 6 months...
    Again, says who? Putting a value on chain wear (distance or time) is meaningless. Try doing a search on chain wear and see. There's a good thread about chain wear somewhere there. I've had a chain on my bike for more than 5 years now without any major issues.

    Get a new mechanic and stop wasting money...

    Read up on Sheldon Brown for wear indications on the chain/cogs

  6. #6
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    My Bikes
    Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    6 months was his estimate for his bike.

    And I believe the chainrings fine. He meant the wear is now consistant for the cogset and chain, they will operate, but not a new chain.

    So he advised to replace together. He didn't measure the chain or look @ the cogset.
    We were discussing simply a new chain.
    A different mech replaced the gear on the cluster.

    The cluster looks perfect as far as my untrained eye sees, If I find no major chain stretch should I just go for a new chain and run the original cluster?

    I'm trying to get a real run out of this wheel, super nice old Mavic, it was not run and stored 'till I got it, so no idea on the miles pre-me. Chain too, from the bikes original build most probably.

  7. #7
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Whistler,BC
    My Bikes
    Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
    Posts
    16,888
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have received the same information everytime. All from xc racers in town. They replace the chain every month or so. Beyond that (say 3 months) they replace the entire drivetrain.

    As for solid values, especially on a mountain bike, this is impossible. Too many variables. Jeff, in bc alone we have what feels like 8 seasons...(at least this year) Chains don't last very long here imo

    That said. I have replaced chains without doing the whole drivetrain and I am 50/50 for this working. 2 times I ended up replacing everything and 2 times it ended up lasting another 2 or 3 months. Tried and true just doesn't exist

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New England
    My Bikes
    Marin Schwinn
    Posts
    52
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Change in 6 months... every month! yikes!

    I am at 3 years and 2500 miles on the original chain, etc. And it all seems to work fine.

    I would assume there would be more of a mileage amount you need to change at rather than by month(s).

  9. #9
    Senior Member Don Cook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Memphis TN
    My Bikes
    Raleigh, Benotto, Schwinn, Trek
    Posts
    816
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The purported wisdom of automatic chain and gear replacements always occurring together, should be challenged by common sense. And anyone telling me that this is what I should do without inspecting my drive train is either lazy, stupid, or both.

    Folks that clean their chain and drive system whithout removal and use water based degreasers because they smell good are most likely those that should be replacing their entire drive system every couple years. These might be the same ones that ride their bikes through all types of foul weather and think they're properly maintaining the bike by spraying down with simple green and then hosing it off.

    I have observed many bikes that are well cared for that have chainrings and cogsets that have accumulated in excess of 10,000 miles without any skipping or jumping. These bike have gone through numerous chain only replacements. Take the advice of others and frequently inspect and measure your chain wear. If you are taking very good care of your bike, replace the chain every 2000 miles or so and forget about the cogsets and chainrings.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,428
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    My mech advised that a new chain will skip if put on a cogset with wear.
    I got the impression he means the chain wear will match the teeth wear and work better than to use a new chain.
    The chain and drive should be ridden out and both replaced @ the same time. I've run this chain on this cogset..maybe a year..(he didn't inspect the teeth) but basic drift was-

    -Replace the chain around 6 months and you can keep using new, any wear and it's best to run them out together and swap out both.

    Sound right?
    He's a very good mech and didn't want to chain until I do the cogset. Sounds logical.
    Also I didn't explain to him about the rear going to an 8 cluster...but he poo-pood the SRAM, said Shimano Hyperglide...was this specific to the current & cluster?

    I had him to put my 11T cog on the cluster, he gave it to me free w\ lockring!
    I just paid for the fit.
    @ 80 rpm i'm now 1.8 mph faster!
    Mileage and months are barnyard waste with respect to chain wear. Replace the chain when it has elongated 1/16" in a foot and cassettes will last a long time. Nothing wrong with Sram chains.They work well and have the power link.The so called 'mech' is a moron and nose picker.

  11. #11
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Lexus Texas
    Posts
    2,791
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    Mileage and months are barnyard waste with respect to chain wear. Replace the chain when it has elongated 1/16" in a foot and cassettes will last a long time. Nothing wrong with Sram chains.They work well and have the power link.The so called 'mech' is a moron and nose picker.
    Yea, what he said.
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if the chain wear has reached or exceeded 1/8" in a foot then it is very likely that you will need a new cogset.
    See Sheldon Browns website for more info.

    Enjoy

  12. #12
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    My Bikes
    Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The drive is always run clean, unfortunate, as a used bike, I can't tell how many miles -I've done 2000 on this chain anyway.

    ..seems he may have been suggesting that a chain change MAY result in me finding out I need a cluster too.

    It may skip...it may not, I believe I will try the new chain only -see IF it will run and not skip.
    If it does -a new cluster, if not and it runs fine, I'll do the cluster later.

    Thanks for the input.

  13. #13
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Home alone
    My Bikes
    Trek 4300 X 2. Trek 1000, Trek 6000
    Posts
    6,021
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Chain wear is a much discussed issue. Conventional wisdom seems to indicate that replacing a chain prior to significant wear will preserve the cassette. That sounds logical to me, however I have never replaced a chain when I didn't need to also replace the cassette.

    Some may suggest that i am not replacing the chain soon enough but i doubt that. I have a Park Tool chain checker and replace the chain when it gets to the .7 wear mark. (the mark with the least wear on the tool) Inevitably, there will be a couple of the cogs that will skip when i put the new chain on.

    At least this has happened the last two times i have swapped chains. I am now approaching 1000 miles on another one of my chains. I am going to yet again swap the chain and see if it skips. The problem stems from the fact that I end up using a couple of the cogs WAY more than the others and they then skip.

    You see you don't measure cog wear by months, or miles but probably more likely by the amount of time there has been a chain engaging the cog and spinning it around.

  14. #14
    My bike's better than me! neil0502's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    My Bikes
    (2) Moots Vamoots, (1) Cannondale T2000 tourer, (1) Diamondback Response Comp mtb
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    The so called 'mech' is a moron and nose picker.
    And a nose picker? Whew. That's harsh.

  15. #15
    Name's Ash ...housewares Doctor Morbius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    The adult video section
    My Bikes
    Too many to list
    Posts
    798
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    6 months was his estimate for his bike.

    And I believe the chainrings fine. He meant the wear is now consistant for the cogset and chain, they will operate, but not a new chain.

    So he advised to replace together. He didn't measure the chain or look @ the cogset.
    We were discussing simply a new chain.
    A different mech replaced the gear on the cluster.

    The cluster looks perfect as far as my untrained eye sees, If I find no major chain stretch should I just go for a new chain and run the original cluster?

    I'm trying to get a real run out of this wheel, super nice old Mavic, it was not run and stored 'till I got it, so no idea on the miles pre-me. Chain too, from the bikes original build most probably.
    If the mechanic is telling you to buy new stuff without measuring the chain or looking at the cogset then he's not giving you the best advice. Find a new mechanic. He cannot tell if a chain is worn by either a conversation or eyeballing it.

    Riding conditions (sand, rain, salt, general road schmutz) and a rider's weight and riding style all factor into it. There are just too many variables for anyone to state that a chain must be replaced at "X" number of miles or months. There are no set formulae on how frequently a person should replace a chain. It MUST be measured. Here's an inexpensive CC-3 Park Chain Checker that will do the trick ...

    http://www.nashbar.com/profile_morei...u=11164&brand=

    If you want to be on the safe side and keep your cassette and chainrings in great shape, toss the chain at 0.75%. You're drivetrain will last a very long time by doing this, even with minimal maintenance.

    If your chain happens to be worn and you replace it without replacing the cassette, it may skip and it may not. The only way to know is to try it. Obviously, if the chain skips on the old cassette then you need a new cassette as well. Otherwise you can leave it alone.
    I did not achieve this position in life by having some snot-nosed punk leave my cheese out in the wind. - Ed Rooney


    It's not that I'm lazy. I'm just highly motivated to RELAX!!

  16. #16
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    My Bikes
    Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, but he has looked @ the wheel for true, he's pulled back from the S of death.

    I'm probably not going to get a new cluster for the Mavic in 7, I think....My best bet is to find a new\ used lightly built 8spd cluster wheel.

    I don't have a good enough 8 spd mtb rear sitting @ hand is the problem.
    My derailler does 7-8. Shifter would be easy.

    O.K.

    Q: Since the cluster is an indexed shimano, should I try a shimano chain or sram for more chance it runs smooth?
    If it does, it's minor cash and I'll be into summer still on the same cluster and rim.

    Think about it, he advised a new cluster 7, $30, chain $22. And I can replace the chain if the rim holds up over summer.

    ..it makes sense..?

    These are the pics of me first trying to make a tensioner and what my friend made for free when he swapped the bb.
    He is a very good mech, central mostly all mech client, the store builds and\or maintains serious commuter\courier\FS\MTB. Frames if you want to build them.
    My bike\wheels have NEVER taken more than a day to have done.

    My 11T cog and lockring that I had put on the cluster yesterday was new, he gave them to me.
    For putting on a new brake cable and housing, and putting the 11T ring on =
    ... 15$. 1 hour wait. Good guy.
    Last edited by jeff williams; 04-06-05 at 10:05 PM.

  17. #17
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Send email to dnvrfox@aol.com for new group
    Posts
    20,883
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have my chains checked regularly by my LBS. I replace them if they are close to showing "stretching."

    I do not replace the cogs very often. My Lemond BA has 10,000 miles without replacing cogs, but has chain replaced regularly. It rides and shifts perfectly - absolutely quiet, no chain skip, etc., and visual inspection shows that the cogs look great.

    I had one bike where I did not check the chain regularly. Ruined the cogs and chain rings, pretty expensive to have all that replaced in the shop. After that I learned my lesson.
    Gone - email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for new group of old 50+ folks

  18. #18
    juneeaa memba!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    boogled up in...Idaho!
    My Bikes
    Crap. The box is not big enough...
    Posts
    5,611
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i'm thinking that we have mountain bikes and road bikes mixed into this discussion. Road bikes can go for years if you keep 'em clean (like a whistle. don't use sticky goop for chain lube. Take the lube off and put it back on every 3rd or 4th ride.) Mountain bikes, properly ridden in mucky goop and abrasive sand and dust, don't keep their chains and cogs for crap. same treatment as above, except i clean up and relube after every ride, and I can maybe get a summer before the shifting starts to go to heck. Stretched chains and hooked cogs (and chainrings) are the major indicators that it is time to support your local bike shop (or your favorite online, or whatever).

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    20
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Exactly! I've learned this thru trial & error and noticed that the 1st 4 of the smaller cogs were the cause of my "skipping" bec/of wear. Sadly enough i could'nt find these 4 cog's for a replacement(shim.XT-M737)thru internet searches,so i forked out for a new one to go along w/my new chain. Also REMEMBER the the original direction of of your chain when removing for any reason bec/this( thru experience) will cause the "skipping" headache all over again if it's placed back on incorrectly! It goes a long way's to keep a good working drive train working smoothly by simply cleaning and oiling after those long&dirty rides.....ur money is invested down there.....take care of it!

  20. #20
    Senior Member Sebach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    My Bikes
    Surly Long Haul Trucker
    Posts
    325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Chain wear is crazy variable. I don't know how, but somehow in under 1000 miles, I got my chain to wear out PAST 1.0 on my chain checker and wore down both my casette and my rings without noticing. I never thought I should be worrying about my chain so early on, never had to in the past but it seems I was wrong this time. I didn't even notice until one day I thought almost all my casette teeth looked a bit like "shark fins." I always kept it clean, lubed it all the time, never heard so much as a squeak out of it. Then again, I ran at lots of hills and XC and through all different conditions (rain, snow, salt, dirt, mud, stream, etc) with lots of mashing. Anyway, I knew my drivetrain components and chain were done with a long time ago, so I just waited until it started to skip before changing it all out. For me, I think my chain was probably stretched out after about 3 months (about 800 miles). My last bike I did not ride nearly so hard but maintained it the same way and that chain probably lasted me like 3000 miles... and I was even heavier back then so who knows.

  21. #21
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
    My Bikes
    Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
    Posts
    13,145
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    My experience..Chain worn or cogset worn. You will likely find less efficient shifting..You may not notice it until you replace the chain, because the spacing is then off for chain / teeth contact.
    My question...One mechanic recommends..Change chain every 3000 miles, whether need it or not..Assure yourself maximum protection of the casette that way..
    But ran into another mechanic..Said change chain and cogset every other chain change out ..The idea of changing the chain every 3000 miles is to protect the casette, so should it not last much longer...

  22. #22
    Spoked to Death phidauex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    My Bikes
    Salsa La Cruz w/ Alfine Internal 8-speed, Scattante Ultegra roadie, Maserati fixie conversion
    Posts
    1,334
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm going to quote Mr. Brown here, because his advice is sound and good, and doesn't rely on odd variables like time or miles, and requires no special tools beyond a good quality ruler. Note that the four possible outcomes include making a decision about whether or not to replace the cassette at the same time as the chain.

    The standard way to measure chain wear is with a ruler or steel tape measure. This can be done without removing the chain from the bicycle. The normal technique is to measure a one-foot length, placing an inch mark of the ruler exactly in the middle of one rivet, then looking at the corresponding rivet 12 complete links away. On a new, unworn chain, this rivet will also line up exactly with an inch mark. With a worn chain, the rivet will be past the inch mark.

    This gives a direct measurement of the wear to the chain, and an indirect measurement of the wear to the sprockets:

    * If the rivet is less than 1/16" past the mark, all is well.

    * If the rivet is 1/16" past the mark, you should replace the chain, but the sprockets are probably undamaged.

    * If the rivet is 1/8" past the mark, you have left it too long, and the sprockets (at least the favorite ones) will be too badly worn. If you replace a chain at the 1/8" point, without replacing the sprockets, it may run OK and not skip, but the worn sprockets will cause the new chain to wear much faster than it should, until it catches up with the wear state of the sprockets.

    * If the rivet is past the 1/8" mark, a new chain will almost certainly skip on the worn sprockets, especially the smaller ones.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •