Rant - Why not lend a hand?
04-07-05, 11:09 AM
#26
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Um it was tounge in cheek! I totally agree with going in and talking it out with the guy or the shop owner. I have had several bone head experiences with LBS' around where I live and have solved the majority of the issues by going in and just talking to them. Usually, I end up getting better service than ever and even made a couple friends out of them.
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04-07-05, 11:24 AM
#27
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Too bad there wasn't a X-Mart nearby, you could have gotten that same cheapo tool and a hot pretzel for $7 and used your card.
Enjoy
Enjoy
04-07-05, 11:28 AM
#28
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Where's a Dollar Store when you need one?!
04-07-05, 11:36 AM
#29
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Hmm...
"Is there a Ralph's anywhere around here?"
"Is there a Ralph's anywhere around here?"
04-07-05, 12:10 PM
#30
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I would have reccomended replaceing the popping apart link with a quick link and charged you two bucks for the link, no labor. Or if you did not want to spend the two dollars, hand you the tool with a reminder that the pin doesn't just pop out for no reason and it is likely to happen again.
If you did not have the cash and wanted to buy the nicer chain tool, i would have let you have and come back to pay later. I have not yet had a person fail to come back, even tho it was often someone I have never seen and the item was a tube or presta adaptor.
I have loaned out tools, the shops tools. I do not loan my personal stuff out. We have never had any loaned tools stolen but we have had quite a few tools damaged.
The min. for processing the card is crap, the only time we really get burned is debit cards for very inexspensive items, and people do use a debit card to buy a handful of ball bearings. Last time I looked the fee was 35 cents. two to three percent for credit cards depending on the card.
My rant: Customers that want me to pump up their road tires for them. They stop in ask if they can air up the tires, then hand me the bike and walk off. i provide the pump, you provide the muscle. I get enough practice at tire pumping already.
If you did not have the cash and wanted to buy the nicer chain tool, i would have let you have and come back to pay later. I have not yet had a person fail to come back, even tho it was often someone I have never seen and the item was a tube or presta adaptor.
I have loaned out tools, the shops tools. I do not loan my personal stuff out. We have never had any loaned tools stolen but we have had quite a few tools damaged.
The min. for processing the card is crap, the only time we really get burned is debit cards for very inexspensive items, and people do use a debit card to buy a handful of ball bearings. Last time I looked the fee was 35 cents. two to three percent for credit cards depending on the card.
My rant: Customers that want me to pump up their road tires for them. They stop in ask if they can air up the tires, then hand me the bike and walk off. i provide the pump, you provide the muscle. I get enough practice at tire pumping already.
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04-07-05, 12:35 PM
#31
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Siding with the LBS.
Of course, if he'd have said "Five bucks?" I'da said OK, and you would have, too, I think.
I use the air pressure guage at the gas station, but asking for the ratchet set is tacky. Present the problem, let the mech offer a solution that strikes him first. Don't like it, go over his head.
Of course, if he'd have said "Five bucks?" I'da said OK, and you would have, too, I think.
I use the air pressure guage at the gas station, but asking for the ratchet set is tacky. Present the problem, let the mech offer a solution that strikes him first. Don't like it, go over his head.
04-07-05, 12:42 PM
#32
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"My rant: Customers that want me to pump up their road tires for them. They stop in ask if they can air up the tires, then hand me the bike and walk off. i provide the pump, you provide the muscle. I get enough practice at tire pumping already."
I second that one Rev! The Arizona Ironman is here this weekend and boy are my arms tired...
I second that one Rev! The Arizona Ironman is here this weekend and boy are my arms tired...
04-07-05, 01:11 PM
#33
NFL Owner
In all of my retail/service experience, I've operated with the attitude that charging for little stuff costs more than just giving it away. If I had been the mechanic, I wouldn't have loaned the tool, but would have fixed it at no charge (if it was truly a simple repair). I've worked in copy shops for over 12 years now, and pretty much won't charge for anything less than 10 copies. It's not worth my time and loss of productivity to stop what I'm doing and go ring them up. Plus I gain a customer. Sure, some will take advantage and come in and make copies <10 at a time and get them for free, but the vast majority remember that I gave them something free and come back and spend money.
Of course, the mechanic may have had a bad experience and loaned out a tool that got stolen. I've loaned out items to coworkers who then sub-loaned them to customers who walked off with them. I no longer loan anything. Even something as cheap as a pen.
Of course, the mechanic may have had a bad experience and loaned out a tool that got stolen. I've loaned out items to coworkers who then sub-loaned them to customers who walked off with them. I no longer loan anything. Even something as cheap as a pen.
04-07-05, 01:36 PM
#34
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While I side with the LBS in not loaning out tools the wrench sounds like a jerk. Did he offer any other way to help you? Would you have paid him two bucks for him to fix it?
God must love jerks because he made so many of them.
God must love jerks because he made so many of them.
04-07-05, 01:58 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Ziemas
While I side with the LBS in not loaning out tools the wrench sounds like a jerk. Did he offer any other way to help you? Would you have paid him two bucks for him to fix it?
God must love jerks because he made so many of them.
God must love jerks because he made so many of them.
Definitely, seeking an alternative LBS for future scheduled repairs is in order, but sometimes you don't have that option . . .
04-07-05, 02:09 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Mr_Super_Socks
It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.
04-07-05, 02:50 PM
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My LBS guys would have had it on a work stand and fixed by the time I could explain my problem. Of course, they know me and I bought a bike from them. When I ask for advice on a problem, they just say " are you on your bike? Bring it in." I knew the guys socially, but BEFORE I bought the bike (R1000), they said "Just take it for the weekend and put your pedals on it. No pedal wrench? Here ya' go." Needless to say, I bought the bike and refer them every chance I get.
04-07-05, 03:23 PM
#38
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A mechanic should never be expected to loan his tools out. I also don't see why someone is expected to work for free. If they OFFER to do it for free, fine.
You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".
I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.
You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".
I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.
04-07-05, 05:17 PM
#39
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When I was wrenching, we would do stuff like that for free. The general rule was if you were cool you could have 5 minutes of free labor once or twice a month.
We wouldn't loan tools to strangers though.
-Z
We wouldn't loan tools to strangers though.
-Z
04-07-05, 05:35 PM
#40
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At very least he could have rented you the tool, which in his pursuit of business would negate insurance liability for "loaning" as opposed to renting, and would have given him a little profit, and you the sense that this was not the place to go back and purchase anything. I'm willing to bet he was not the owner but an employee, and further if he was in fact the owner, he won't be for long with that kind of business practice!!
But let me add, I work for a real estate, company, we rent a building to a used car dealer. A neighbor stopped in and asked to use his air compressor to inflate a car tire. Guy over inflated the tire and blew it off the rim, left a bruise on his arm but nothing substantial or permanent. Guy turned around and sued, us because we owned the building, the tenant because he let him use the compressor, Sears Roebuck the manufacturer of the compressor and the manufaturer of the tire. The insurances companies settled for $10,000 a piece to get rid of the case. Guy was rewarded with $40,000 for his stupidity. We spend 1 week a year reviewing all of our insurance policies with our agent, and the average Joe has NO CLUE, what kind of claims insurance companies will settle just to save money by not having to go to court!
Who in their right mind would ever think that such a simple gesture of kindness as allowing someone to inflate their flat tire could result in such a ridiculous outcome.
But let me add, I work for a real estate, company, we rent a building to a used car dealer. A neighbor stopped in and asked to use his air compressor to inflate a car tire. Guy over inflated the tire and blew it off the rim, left a bruise on his arm but nothing substantial or permanent. Guy turned around and sued, us because we owned the building, the tenant because he let him use the compressor, Sears Roebuck the manufacturer of the compressor and the manufaturer of the tire. The insurances companies settled for $10,000 a piece to get rid of the case. Guy was rewarded with $40,000 for his stupidity. We spend 1 week a year reviewing all of our insurance policies with our agent, and the average Joe has NO CLUE, what kind of claims insurance companies will settle just to save money by not having to go to court!
Who in their right mind would ever think that such a simple gesture of kindness as allowing someone to inflate their flat tire could result in such a ridiculous outcome.
04-07-05, 05:47 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Avalanche325
A mechanic should never be expected to loan his tools out. I also don't see why someone is expected to work for free. If they OFFER to do it for free, fine.
You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".
I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.
You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".
I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.
Now as for me, seeing that you were in a bind would have done it for free. I honestly think the mech passed on an opportunity to build a relationship and gain a customer. And word of mouth advertising from you, on what a great LBS and mech, would have been worth my time.
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04-07-05, 05:52 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Mr_Super_Socks
I guess I would have felt differently if he said his insurance prevented it. It still seems a little crass not to make an exception.
~~~ wavy dream thingies ~~~ If this were Little House on the Prairie (with bikes!!) he would have said. "Aw, geez, son, I am so sorry. Ma insurance cumpny just won't allow it. But heck, I ain't too busy. why don't I fix it right up for ya!?" Then I say, "that's great, how much do I owe you?" (with my seven bucks in hand.) He says, "just come on back and buy yer kid's first bike from me!" end wavy dream thingies ~~~~~
In this imaginary scenario, he would have heard through the grapevine that I just had a baby. and Im already shopping for bikes. he wasn't apparently doing anything when I showed up.
~~~ wavy dream thingies ~~~ If this were Little House on the Prairie (with bikes!!) he would have said. "Aw, geez, son, I am so sorry. Ma insurance cumpny just won't allow it. But heck, I ain't too busy. why don't I fix it right up for ya!?" Then I say, "that's great, how much do I owe you?" (with my seven bucks in hand.) He says, "just come on back and buy yer kid's first bike from me!" end wavy dream thingies ~~~~~
In this imaginary scenario, he would have heard through the grapevine that I just had a baby. and Im already shopping for bikes. he wasn't apparently doing anything when I showed up.
Actually happened to me the other day... so not so much a "dream sequence." Not the chain, but a stubborn tire. But same scene...
I was back the next day and bought a bike computer. What goes around comes around.
04-08-05, 09:49 AM
#43
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I am lucky - my local shop is a workers co-op. They lend tools and pumps to pretty much everyone and are really helpful and friendly to all their customers. It works to their advantage, I go there as a first choice to buy stuff and I tell my friends to go and get their stuff there as well.
On the other hand I went into a different shop where another customer had a puncture and wanted to borrow a pump. They made him buy a pump - as a result I decided not to buy anything and tell my friends not to go there.
The shop makes their choice how to run their business and I make my choice on which shop to use. There is usually a link between these choices...
On the other hand I went into a different shop where another customer had a puncture and wanted to borrow a pump. They made him buy a pump - as a result I decided not to buy anything and tell my friends not to go there.
The shop makes their choice how to run their business and I make my choice on which shop to use. There is usually a link between these choices...
04-08-05, 10:01 AM
#44
Listen to me
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Originally Posted by Momentum
I am lucky - my local shop is a workers co-op. They lend tools and pumps to pretty much everyone and are really helpful and friendly to all their customers. It works to their advantage, I go there as a first choice to buy stuff and I tell my friends to go and get their stuff there as well.
Cheers.
I'll be in England in a few weeks please send a link to you co-op.
I would like to stop by and say hello (maybe buy a round of pints).
Heres mine:
www.ohiocitycycles.org
Enjoy
Last edited by powers2b; 04-08-05 at 11:48 AM.
04-08-05, 10:17 AM
#45
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I purhased deraileur cables from my lbs. I happended to have the bike on a rack on the back of my car outside. I had a question about routing a cable through a hole in the tube. He came out and looked at the bike and gave me free advise. I spent $15 for cables and housings. I went home, changed out the cables and had a problem with the rear one. I brought the whole bike back the next day and asked what I was doing wrong. He showed me, allowed me to borrow his hex wrench and cable cutters. I made the final adjustment right there in his shop. no problem, no additional cost.
Find another shop where they are not so touchy about service. They are penny wise and pound foolish. You can potentially purchase thousands of dollars in assorted goods over the year, while he wants to haggle over $20? It does not make sense. Cut your losses and move on with your life.
Find another shop where they are not so touchy about service. They are penny wise and pound foolish. You can potentially purchase thousands of dollars in assorted goods over the year, while he wants to haggle over $20? It does not make sense. Cut your losses and move on with your life.
04-08-05, 10:52 AM
#46
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LBS are not all that bad, I just upgraded local, just ordered it in, didn't bother to shop around for the best price. Well I thought I would check to see what kind of price I did get so Icalled around to some large distributers, and the price was bang on what it should be, no one could offer me a better price. Now I be it that I am a riding partner with the owneer, and the Mechanic, so I can pretty much drop my bike there in the morning, and it will be loaded ontop of the Mechs car that night waiting to drive out to some killer spots. Then I say " Hey don't I owe you some cash for that fix" and always get the same responce. "Where did you buy this bike? and the bike before that? and the bike before that? and the bike before that?" Of course it was with them, so he's like just keep buying bikes, and if you can break it I cn fix it. They will have me coming back till the day I die with friends, and service like that. Doesn't hurt that they are a half a block from where I work either 
04-08-05, 10:57 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by Mr_Super_Socks
On my way to work this morning, I notice a skipping in the rear der. As the cogs (in my head) turn, I think to look closely at my chain. Turns out, a link is half separating. I think, "crap", but cool, there's a bike shop right up here. I'll ask to borrow their chain tool and be on my merry way. I have been wanting to go in there for a while now, but it's never open when I ride by (i ride early AM and usually latePM).
This is my chance to check it out and say hello to the mechanic, right? wrong. I asked if I could borrow a chain tool for my bike (pointing to my bike at the entrance of the shop). He hesisates, so I say, "would you mind, terribly?" I was taken aback when he looked me in the eye and said, "actually I would. I can't lend you a chain tool."
I say, "then can I buy one?" He says, "sure, $10." I am upset and a little mystified, but recognize they are his friggin tools and if he wants to be a weenie, he's entitled. So I look and have no cash. when I put my card on the counter he refuses, saying "$20 minimum on credit cards." He then asks how much $ I have and when I say $7, he pulls out a true pos chain tool and hands it to me. With no real choice, I take the tool and make the repair as he walks to the back of ths store, talking about how if he lent two tools to every customer that walked in, he'd be out of tools in a week and what if people break them and so forth. I think to myself, you don't need to justify this to me, pal. I leave the tool on the counter and shout, "thanks for nothing. enjoy the seven bucks."
It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.
This is my chance to check it out and say hello to the mechanic, right? wrong. I asked if I could borrow a chain tool for my bike (pointing to my bike at the entrance of the shop). He hesisates, so I say, "would you mind, terribly?" I was taken aback when he looked me in the eye and said, "actually I would. I can't lend you a chain tool."
I say, "then can I buy one?" He says, "sure, $10." I am upset and a little mystified, but recognize they are his friggin tools and if he wants to be a weenie, he's entitled. So I look and have no cash. when I put my card on the counter he refuses, saying "$20 minimum on credit cards." He then asks how much $ I have and when I say $7, he pulls out a true pos chain tool and hands it to me. With no real choice, I take the tool and make the repair as he walks to the back of ths store, talking about how if he lent two tools to every customer that walked in, he'd be out of tools in a week and what if people break them and so forth. I think to myself, you don't need to justify this to me, pal. I leave the tool on the counter and shout, "thanks for nothing. enjoy the seven bucks."
It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.
This is a difficult case. My first reaction was "why didn't the mechanic just fix the link?" However, on consideration, I can imagine reasons for that. Modern chains are not supposed to be joined with a chain tool, only by installing a special link (or a special pin, in the case of Shimano chains.) If the mechanic were to close up the link for you, he could be exposing himself to liability if it were to bust later on. I must admit that I join my own chains with a chain tool fairly often, and some of my personal bikes have chains pieced together from cut-offs, but I wouldn't do this on a customer's bike.
In this case, I think I would probably have sold Mr. Socks a Sram Power link for $5. If he didn't have the $5 I probably would have trusted him for it, unless he had an attitude problem.
Someone else brought up the "insurance" issue. I've never believed that story when I've heard it, I think it's just an excuse people like to use to absolve themselves of responsibility.
Sheldon "Fix It" Brown
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+-------------------------------------------------------+ | A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually | | on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; | | no religious basis is necessary. | | Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be | | restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward | | after death. --Albert Einstein | +-------------------------------------------------------+
04-08-05, 11:27 AM
#48
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I think your problem started when you initiated the whole sequence by asking a proprietor of a business to borrow something that he normally charges for. IOW, from his point of view he was probably figuring you were just looking for a freebie. I am sure he has seen plenty of that and has had enough.
You should have started by walking into the LBS and making it appear like you were going to need to purchase something from him to repair your chain. Then he likely would have taken the high ground and offered to do it for free.
"Hi, I am having a bad day and my chain is about ready to split in half. I only have $7 on me because i normally don't carry much cash with me on a ride. Do you have any ideas on what I can do?" Sounds much better than.......
"Hey, can i borrow your chain tool?"
You should have started by walking into the LBS and making it appear like you were going to need to purchase something from him to repair your chain. Then he likely would have taken the high ground and offered to do it for free.
"Hi, I am having a bad day and my chain is about ready to split in half. I only have $7 on me because i normally don't carry much cash with me on a ride. Do you have any ideas on what I can do?" Sounds much better than.......
"Hey, can i borrow your chain tool?"
04-08-05, 11:41 AM
#49
Berserkergang Sykkelbud
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Englishman in Norway
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Ive never met so many obnoxious people in any other walk of life than I have working behind a counter in bike shops. I can only think that working in a bike shop must be the most tedious job in the world and (when they're not scratching something), they seem to get great sport from venting their frustrations out on their own customers. ******** economics! As a bike messenger who's worked all over europe Ive had to deal with quite a few lbs in my time and there are some absolute diamonds out there, but the job does seem to attract alot of arrogant boneheads as well. I can only blame the owners of the shops that hire them- maybe they should employ more sophisticated interviewing techniques than just taking them out the back to see if they can build a mud-pie that wont fall over., or whatever they do.. Bike mechanics is hardly rocket science and these assistants, knowing we all love our bikes so much, get a real power buzz when they think we need them. Shock horror if you walk in there and just want to borrow his pie making moulds! You must have made the poor chap feel redundant.. pity his sorry ars
04-08-05, 11:56 AM
#50
Listen to me
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by 12steven
Ive never met so many obnoxious people in any other walk of life than I have working behind a counter in bike shops.
I walked into a LBS and started asking about threadless stems. The guy acts like he can't be bothered. Then I mention that I ride with the local touring club (Bling Bling customers) and suddenly the guy is my g-dm buddy showing me stuff in the case, asking what I ride, pointing out the sale items....etc.
Whatever, I just walked out feeling dirty and cheap.
Enjoy