Tandem Tom

Was not sure where to post this but thought it would get the best coverage here.
Today while out on a group ride I was telling one of the fellows that I am considering selling my Serotta Colorado II because it is just too twitchy. I would like something with a more relaxed frame geometry. He mentioned he has a Rivendell Rambouille that he is considering selling.
So anyone familiar with this frame? It is about 8 years old so not sure what it might be worth. Ideas??
Thanks!

Raiden

The quality is probably just fine- far more importantly, go ride it and see if it agrees with you! Then think about the rest.

Andrew R Stewart 

Is the frame/bike a good fit for you size/set up wise? Will you be able to test ride it first? Rivendells are nicely made frames with often uncommon parts spec. No reason to avoid unless it doesn't fit you well, which a test ride will expose. Andy.

Dfrost 

I've had a 2003 Rivendell Rambouillet (note the spelling) for 11 years and a 1987 Marinoni Sports Tourer (Columbus SLX tubing) for the last year. I've ridden a Serotta Colorado for about 80 miles on Cycle Oregon 9, but it was about 18 years ago, so wouldn't trust my memory. I remember thinking it was a very nice ride, but not what I would want at the time. (I was riding a long wheelbase Klein Performance for everything in those days.)

You might want want to ask this or a similar question over on the Classic and Vintage forum. And as an idea, have you tried larger tires on your Serotta?

Here's a long post from last spring comparing the Rambouillet and Marinoni that still applies:

Executive Summary: Both bikes fit me well, are very comfortable, and can do what I want on my bikes, but the Marinoni is always my ride of choice if the roads are dry because of its great feel and responsiveness. Every ride makes me want to go farther. The Rambouillet has become my very nice dedicated fender bike, but lacks that feel and "joy of riding". It's not slower, however, on my frequent 37 mile commutes.

Both of these bikes seem to have been designed to similar goals: long, non-racing rides and credit card touring, so plenty of tire/fender clearance, longer chainstays with vertical dropouts (44.5cm for the Rambouillet, 43.5cm for the Marinoni), double eyelets on the rear dropouts, single in front. BTW, both frames are the correct size for me – 64cm for the Rambouillet, 63.5cm (both center-to-top) for the Marinoni, but the TT is 2cm longer on the Rambouillet. I’ve set them up so the fit is identical except for bar height. The shots of my three bikes side-by-side illustrate the frame/fit differences described below. If its not obvious, the metallic sage green is the Rambouillet. the metallic red is the Marinoni.



Bar height: A distinct difference is that Grant Peterson added several features to encourage and ease getting bars up to saddle height – the slightly (2 degrees) sloping top tube (noticeable in the above pic), extended head lug and extended steerer. He also claims a lower bottom bracket, but that seems to be identical between these two bikes, and both are only slightly lower than my black 1979 Miyata 912. The result is that a normal quill stem (I’m using a Nitto Pearl that came via Specialized) on the Rambouillet has the bars at or slightly above my saddle height, while the Marinoni would need something like a Nitto Technomic, or one of VO’s taller stems to reach that height. I’m using VO’s pretty Gran Compe stem for bars 3cm below the saddle.



Saddle setback: Worth noting if you like a leather saddle pushed all the way back is that Rivendell seat tube angles are more relaxed (apparent in the below picture), so they don’t require a long setback seatpost to achieve that fit. I’m using an American Classic post with a Brooks B-17 on the Rambouillet, but needed (and like very much) a VO Long Setback post on the Marinoni with a Gilles Berthoud Aravis (same limited rail length as the B-17) to achieve that saddle position, which I require with my very long femurs.



These fit details could be true for any vintage frame, and note that the VO seatpost is only available in 27.2mm diameter, which precludes its use in some frames like my Miyata.

Frame details: Grant designs beautiful lugs with interesting details, and the workmanship is impeccable. BTW, mine was a Rivendell repaint. It came from the era when Rambouillets were a pretty metallic orange, but apparently this one came in with paint defects, so Rivendell had it repainted in this color, and I’ve heard its Imron paint which would be an improvement over what was standard. My Marinoni has more classic, simple lugs with some nice pantographs, and the paint/chrome quality is equally high quality. The lug brazing and finish work is also excellent. Obviously any vintage frame will have its own level of details and patina. To my eye, the 1/8” smaller DT and TT (“standard”) diameters on the Marinoni are apparent when the bikes are side-by-side, and along with the full chrome rear triangle, give it a lighter, more delicate (in a good way) appearance. The Rivendell comparably equipped weighs about a pound more than the Marinoni for those that care (not me), due to the larger frame tubing and slightly heavier rims, tires and larger cassette.

Comfort: Bike comfort is all about the fit for your intended riding, a good saddle, and good quality lower pressure tires, IMHO. The Rambouillet really shines here with the frame design features described above. I’m using Grand Bois Cypres 700x32mm tires on this bike, which ride fantastically well and still have room for fenders. It has room for even larger tires. My well-broken-in B-17 Ti saddle, slotted by Selle An-Atomica years ago, certainly is a major contributor to comfort. The Marinoni has achieved the same comfort level as the GB saddle (no slotting and less nose-up tilt required) has broken in, and I wanted a slightly more aggressive position on this bike, so I’m fine with the slightly lower bars. It can handle 32mm tires, but the also very nice Grand Bois Cerf 29mm tires on it would be better if fenders were involved. (Update note: 32mm tires on the Marinoni slow down the steering a bit, so that I will probably use them for touring, but the 29's maintain the lively feel that is so fantastic.)

Riding Feel: This is where the Marinoni shines, and why I bought the frame despite being so similar to the Rambouillet in many respects. It feels noticeably more fun and lively, like it really wants to go even with my modest power – I think this approaches what Jan Heine calls “planing”, when a frame has the blend of stiffness and flex to work with a rider’s pedaling forces. The steering is responsive but not “darty” and yet it’s confident at high speeds (and I've had a bike that wasn't). The Rambouillet feels more “solid” in comparison (someone has described Rivendells as feeling “wooden”) and doesn’t have quite that same “working with me” kind of feel under hard effort that I sense on the Marinoni and experienced with my 70’s era steel Masis. The steering isn’t as quick but doesn’t feel odd as some touring bikes do to me unloaded, and it is even more stable at speed. Those characteristics are very nice for a touring bike, and that’s how I plan to use it in the future (credit card, not camping-type touring). I’m still evaluating riding feel differences in more detail (former aerospace test engineer here) and plan to do back-to-back comparison rides soon with these bikes, including swapping wheels/tires, and trying both with moderately loaded panniers. Maybe I'll go back to being a one bike (that would be the Marinoni) guy, maybe not.

davidad

If it's a 58 or 59 and you don't want it let me know how to contact the owner. I would love to get it.
My Heron Road lacks enough clearance of 28's and fenders.

Tandem Tom

Dfrost, Thanks for the very detailed post!! I found it both informative and helpful. I am currently using 28mm tires on my Serotta and with the Campy brakes(Athena) I cannot fit a larger tire.
Yesterday and today I was riding my '83 Schwinn Super Le Tour and my what difference. I noticed the difference while descending, much more stable, and it seemed to climb better.