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Old 04-08-05, 12:07 PM   #1
ImprezaDrvr
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Rear wheel dish/tension problem

I had a Record/Open Pro rear wheel rebuilt this summer by the shop I bought it from to begin with and I'm not sure that they had their ace wheel builder on the job that day. It's been creaky ever since, and in spite of rebuilding the rear hub twice, the noise is still there. I think it's a spoke tension issue. The non-drive side spoke tension is pretty loose, and the rim is off center towards the non-drive side as well. Drive-side tension is actually good, if not a little high. Basically, I can't tighten the non drive spokes or it'll pull the rim even more out of dish and I can't tighten the drive side to dish it up because the tension's so high to begin with. I'm gonna rebuild it over the weekend and wanted to see what the wheel gurus here thought about the problem. Given this situation, would you say that the wrong size spokes are in place on one or both sides of the wheel? I went to DT and another spoke calculator and came up with 296 non drive and 294 drive, but I haven't pulled a spoke from the wheel to see what's in it now. Anything else I should be wary of? I've built and rebuilt wheels before, so I'm fairly comfortable with the procedure and I've got plenty of time with 40-60 mph winds expected tomorrow.

Thanks!
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Old 04-08-05, 12:14 PM   #2
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The loose spokes are rubbing against each other causing the creaking noise.
Typical of new wheel builds that have not been stress relieved.
Tightening the loose spokes should remedy the situation.
You can also get offset hubs and rims to help remedy this condition if you have extreme dishing.

Enjoy
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Old 04-08-05, 12:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powers2b
The loose spokes are rubbing against each other causing the creaking noise.
Typical of new wheel builds that have not been stress relieved.
Tightening the loose spokes should remedy the situation.
You can also get offset hubs and rims to help remedy this condition if you have extreme dishing.

Enjoy
yes, that's my theory on the noise, but if you'll note, given that the wheel is already out of dish towards the non-drive side, tightening the non-drive spokes is just going to make that worse. The wheel was dished well when it was new; it's not like this is something new to rear wheels. until I rebuild it and find that it won't come in to dish at all no matter what, I'm not replacing a perfectly good rim that's less than two years old.

Well, truth told, after buying a new wheelset and fork, if I try to buy so much as a new rim Wifey will have a fit.
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Old 04-08-05, 01:35 PM   #4
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Are you sure the rim is offcenter with respect to the lock nuts and dropouts? Reversing the wheel on a truing stand is the best test. Or you can use a dishing tool.
What is the lacing pattern? What kind of spokes?
The only way you can add tension to the non-drive spokes and center the rim is to add tension to the drive side spokes.
If the wheel is properly laced the spoke lengths are probably OK unless the nipples bottom out on the threads on the drive side. I always buy drive side spokes 1 mm shorter than calculated.
Sounds like the wheel was never tensioned properly.
How much tension the the drive side spokes have? I'd bet it's not enough.

Al
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Old 04-08-05, 01:56 PM   #5
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Lemme put it this way: Drive side spokes won't tighten more than a quarter turn before some of the nipples start to round. As for dish, yes it's out of dish according to my dishing tool. 3x lacing, 32 hole rims. DT straight gauge spokes.
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Old 04-08-05, 04:46 PM   #6
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Try loosening the non-drive spokes exactly 1 turn each. That'll make it easier to tighten the drive side spokes a turn. Then you can tighten the non-drive spokes 2 turns.
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Old 04-08-05, 07:44 PM   #7
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What kind of spoke wrench are you using? This is exactly why I had to quit using my Park wrench, now using Spokey wrenches.
Are the nipples bottoming out? Do they run out of threads? If so you may need shorter spokes on the drive side. A tensiometer would help. Park makes a pretty good one for about $55.
Also try lubricating the rim-nipple interface at each nipple. That will also make the nipples easier to turn.
If you want more help try answering my questions in earlier post.

Al
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Old 04-08-05, 08:03 PM   #8
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its good practice to stick some form of lube between the contact of nipple and rim. I used to use ice wax, though my last build I used grease to try. both did the job fine. I dont like the park, Its fast to use but it doesnt beat the 4 sides of jaws on my pedros, never rounded a nipple
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