Why Did These Products Fade Away Or Die Out?
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As for ball bearing derailleur pulleys - a lot of mountain bike pulleys are factory ball bearing equipped. Not sure why road bikes aren't - offhand I think DuraAce are. As far as plastic instead of aluminum is for noise and price.
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I haven't bought a "new" bike from a shop since the early 1990s. I was surprised when I read that aluminum steering tubes are not common anymore. Although people are popping up saying that they are still readily available. Aluminum legs on forks are still common as far as I know. It's the aluminum steering tubes that I'm asking about. Maybe the guys that posted that they don't exist anymore were mistaken about the availability. I haven't looked at new bikes or replacement forks lately, so I don't know first hand what the current market is like.
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I was watching titanium come down in price in the '90s, hoping to swoop in but CF became less expensive to produce, I guess. Litespeed had a no-frills frame called a Classic; I seem to remember it getting as low as $1,500 from Colorado Cyclist before I lost track or interest.
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I think the main thing with Ti BBs was that first splined (ISIS and Octolink), and then external bearing, and most recently several press-fit BB standards took over from the traditional square taper BBs, and with so few bikes using square taper BBs, there is virtually no market for the Ti replacements. And most new cranksets come with a built in spindle. All that, plus that fact that the standard size of spindle, when using a softer and weaker (per unit of cross sectional area) material resulted in unacceptably flexy and weak BBs, hence the reports of breakage and restrictive rider weight limits.
Question: Why are Ti handlebars not popular anymore?
Answer: carbon fibre handlebars
Although there are a few manufacturers who make Ti bars, a lighter and probably stronger set of bars is almost definitely available made from carbon.
Forks with aluminum steerer tubes are still very much available - both suspension and rigid forks. The very highest end forks now come with carbon steerers, but there are plenty with aluminum too. I wonder if you aren't confused about a recent thread about adapting an aluminum steerer tube for use with a threaded headset - aluminum steerer tubes were common, but very rarely threaded.
I always got the impression that those pulleys had a definite negative impact on shifting for the reason you stated (lack of floating top pulley) and their claims of less drivetrain resistance were either grossly exaggerated or completely bogus. As I recall, one manufacturer claimed an energy savings of a 50 foot climb over some distance, but properly maintained bushing derailleurs don't have enough drag to make any sort of measureable or noticeable difference. This was pretty well known back in the days of anodized aluminum parts (early-mid nineties), so the only people that had them were the uninformed, or those who wanted matching purple anodizing on every possible part (you all know who you are, so please take a moment to hang your heads in shame now). Also, the top and second from the top derailleur from Shimano have long used ball bearings instead of bushings, and a whole derailleur doesn't cost much more that some sets of aftermarket pulleys.
Question: Why are Ti handlebars not popular anymore?
Answer: carbon fibre handlebars
Although there are a few manufacturers who make Ti bars, a lighter and probably stronger set of bars is almost definitely available made from carbon.
Forks with aluminum steerer tubes are still very much available - both suspension and rigid forks. The very highest end forks now come with carbon steerers, but there are plenty with aluminum too. I wonder if you aren't confused about a recent thread about adapting an aluminum steerer tube for use with a threaded headset - aluminum steerer tubes were common, but very rarely threaded.
I always got the impression that those pulleys had a definite negative impact on shifting for the reason you stated (lack of floating top pulley) and their claims of less drivetrain resistance were either grossly exaggerated or completely bogus. As I recall, one manufacturer claimed an energy savings of a 50 foot climb over some distance, but properly maintained bushing derailleurs don't have enough drag to make any sort of measureable or noticeable difference. This was pretty well known back in the days of anodized aluminum parts (early-mid nineties), so the only people that had them were the uninformed, or those who wanted matching purple anodizing on every possible part (you all know who you are, so please take a moment to hang your heads in shame now). Also, the top and second from the top derailleur from Shimano have long used ball bearings instead of bushings, and a whole derailleur doesn't cost much more that some sets of aftermarket pulleys.
All my bikes still have square taper bottom brackets. I can't believe the number of different bottom bracket designs that have popped up in the past 15-20 years. As far as I can tell, manufacturers are skipping back and forth in an attempt to gain a marketing /patent advantage for the products over the competition without regard for the consumer. Buying a replacement bottom bracket for a newer bike has become confusing mess without any standard like we had when square taper was standard. Pressed in, external, ISI, Octolink, I doon;t see any advantage in any of these over square taper for the riding that I do.
I saw plenty of threaded aluminum steering tubes on on-road and off-road forks at one time, and I never saw any warnings or recalls due to breakage.
While carbon parts may be lighter than aluminum parts and stiffer or stronger in a specific designed for direction, aluminum parts do not damage as easily in an off-direction incident as carbod parts do. Aluminum chainstays are not damaged or ruined when the chain comes off and grainds/rubs on them. Aluminum tubes do not crack or crush as easily if the bikes falls over sideways as carbon tubes do. In my opinion, that makes aluminum framed bikes more practical for everyday utility use, and commuting than carbon frame bikes are. Same problem with carbon handlebars. If you have carbon handlebars and the bike falls over in an uncontrolled manner, the odds of damage are much higher that if the handlebars were made of aluminum.
I have heard of many more carbon steerer failures than aluminum steerer failures. Why is aluminum steerer failure risk unacceptable, while carbon steerer failure is downplayed now?
If I had to take a carbon steerer or an aluminum steerer, I would trust a threaded aluminum steerer more that a carbon. But, that's just me, and I have to pay for my own parts.
Last edited by RoadGuy; 11-20-14 at 03:22 PM.
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I haven't bought a "new" bike from a shop since the early 1990s. I was surprised when I read that aluminum steering tubes are not common anymore. Although people are popping up saying that they are still readily available. Aluminum legs on forks are still common as far as I know. It's the aluminum steering tubes that I'm asking about. Maybe the guys that posted that they don't exist anymore were mistaken about the availability. I haven't looked at new bikes or replacement forks lately, so I don't know first hand what the current market is like.
Some of them are real boat anchors, but hey, the salesman can tell you that ' it even comes with a carbon fork!'
Higher end bikes have full carbon forks (including the dropouts) and can weigh as little as 300-350 grammes. But they require an expander insert plug as you cannot install a star-fangled nut in a carbon steerer because it would simply disintegrate if you did. The expander plug somewhat negates the weight savings of a full carbon fork.
Last edited by Batavus; 11-20-14 at 03:25 PM.
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The Landrider autoshifting bike. There's one that deserved to die- a bike for people too lazy to shift gears, but energetic enough to actually move the pedals in a circle.
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All my bikes still have square taper bottom brackets. I can't believe the number of different bottom bracket designs that have popped up in the past 15-20 years. As far as I can tell, manufacturers are skipping back and forth in an attempt to gain a marketing /patent advantage for the products over the competition without regard for the consumer. Buying a replacement bottom bracket for a newer bike has become confusing mess without any standard like we had when square taper was standard. Pressed in, external, ISI, Octolink, I doon;t see any advantage in any of these over square taper for the riding that I do.
I saw plenty of threaded aluminum steering tubes on on-road and off-road forks at one time, and I never saw any warnings or recalls due to breakage.
While carbon parts may be lighter than aluminum parts and stiffer or stronger in a specific designed for direction, aluminum parts do not damage as easily in an off-direction incident as carbod parts do. Aluminum chainstays are not damaged or ruined when the chain comes off and grainds/rubs on them. Aluminum tubes do not crack or crush as easily if the bikes falls over sideways as carbon tubes do. In my opinion, that makes aluminum framed bikes more practical for everyday utility use, and commuting than carbon frame bikes are. Same problem with carbon handlebars. If you have carbon handlebars and the bike falls over in an uncontrolled manner, the odds of damage are much higher that if the handlebars were made of aluminum.
I have heard of many more carbon steerer failures than aluminum steerer failures. Why is aluminum steerer failure risk unacceptable, while carbon steerer failure is downplayed now?
If I had to take a carbon steerer or an aluminum steerer, I would trust a threaded aluminum steerer more that a carbon. But, that's just me, and I have to pay for my own parts.
I saw plenty of threaded aluminum steering tubes on on-road and off-road forks at one time, and I never saw any warnings or recalls due to breakage.
While carbon parts may be lighter than aluminum parts and stiffer or stronger in a specific designed for direction, aluminum parts do not damage as easily in an off-direction incident as carbod parts do. Aluminum chainstays are not damaged or ruined when the chain comes off and grainds/rubs on them. Aluminum tubes do not crack or crush as easily if the bikes falls over sideways as carbon tubes do. In my opinion, that makes aluminum framed bikes more practical for everyday utility use, and commuting than carbon frame bikes are. Same problem with carbon handlebars. If you have carbon handlebars and the bike falls over in an uncontrolled manner, the odds of damage are much higher that if the handlebars were made of aluminum.
I have heard of many more carbon steerer failures than aluminum steerer failures. Why is aluminum steerer failure risk unacceptable, while carbon steerer failure is downplayed now?
If I had to take a carbon steerer or an aluminum steerer, I would trust a threaded aluminum steerer more that a carbon. But, that's just me, and I have to pay for my own parts.
Also, aluminum steerer tubes are not considered an unacceptable risk - they are extremely common. They are only rare if you are looking for a threaded steerer tube - but all threaded steerer tubes are rare now.
#34
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I always got the impression that those pulleys had a definite negative impact on shifting for the reason you stated (lack of floating top pulley) and their claims of less drivetrain resistance were either grossly exaggerated or completely bogus. As I recall, one manufacturer claimed an energy savings of a 50 foot climb over some distance, but properly maintained bushing derailleurs don't have enough drag to make any sort of measureable or noticeable difference. This was pretty well known back in the days of anodized aluminum parts (early-mid nineties), so the only people that had them were the uninformed, or those who wanted matching purple anodizing on every possible part (you all know who you are, so please take a moment to hang your heads in shame now). Also, the top and second from the top derailleur from Shimano have long used ball bearings instead of bushings, and a whole derailleur doesn't cost much more that some sets of aftermarket pulleys.
clamp and headset spacers!
all my derailers were the plastic non-bb variety, the kinds that would last 50,000
miles, but you gotta grease the bushing plate thingies a couple times a year,
usually when the buggers start to make squeeling noises.
tried out a pair of snazzy cnc-aluminimum sealed-bearing pulleys. wow, methought,
sealed bearings? never have to clean and grease 'em again! aluminimum? bet
those'll last even longerer than cheap ole' plastic!
nope. those alu dealies wore down to nubbles in less'n 10,000 miles....that's
with properly cleaned and lubeded chain, changed every 4-5000 km. they still
spin nice, but as bits break off the teeth, sometimes the chain wants to snag.
switched back to the (regreased) oldfangled plastic pulleys i'd thrown in the junk bin.
the lack of float on the top pulley is just poor design. they coulda built in the same
feature, but then they'd have to make two models. just lazy.
#35
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a Carmichael Ti Pulley. pair is still tikin' ... Among the machined bushings included were a pair combined, wider inside than the bearing thickness,
that is how they solved the Shimano float function, it slid sideways freely.
Friction shifting , RD Campag Euclid. I didnt need them.
that is how they solved the Shimano float function, it slid sideways freely.
Friction shifting , RD Campag Euclid. I didnt need them.
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As has been stated already, aluminum steerer tubes are still very common on new bikes in bike shops, particularly mountain bikes. Personally, I've never owned a suspension fork that didn't have an aluminum steerer tube (and I've owned suspension forks over a pretty wide time span), and that includes the Rockshox Reba fork on my 2014 bike, which is about a $3000 retail bike. For that application, aluminum's a good material for a steerer tube. There are cheap suspension forks with steel steerer tubes, and very expensive, very lightweight models with carbon steerer tubes, but aluminum steerers are extremely common. Aluminum steerers are also fairly common on road bikes, particularly entry level models with carbon fork blades/aluminum steerers. But full carbon forks are extremely common, too, even on entry level road models.
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Switching the material but keeping the design/dimensions is almost always a bad move.
The strength/weight ratio of steel/Ti/alu is about the same but they vary in density. If you use the small cross-section of a design made for steel and swap for the same volume of Ti, you have less weight and less strength.
The only time this is a acceptable option is for use by smaller, weaker riders.
Each material has its own optimal dimensions.
The strength/weight ratio of steel/Ti/alu is about the same but they vary in density. If you use the small cross-section of a design made for steel and swap for the same volume of Ti, you have less weight and less strength.
The only time this is a acceptable option is for use by smaller, weaker riders.
Each material has its own optimal dimensions.
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Switching the material but keeping the design/dimensions is almost always a bad move. The strength/weight ratio of steel/Ti/alu is about the same but they vary in density. If you use the small cross-section of a design made for steel and swap for the same volume of Ti, you have less weight and less strength.
Last edited by HillRider; 11-21-14 at 08:04 AM.
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My Ti MTB, although a Russian built frame of unknown alloy, is the only MTB to ever last me more than two years without breaking - going on 11 or 12 years old now. And most of the miles over the past two years have been with a rigid fork on rough singletrack. To be fair, I never had an aluminum mtb frame that fit me well enough for my liking, and so I got rid of them before I had a chance to evaluate long-term durability. I recently broke my first aluminum frame - a touring bike I had been riding extensively off-road. All my other broken frames were supposedly good quality steel.
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My Ti MTB, although a Russian built frame of unknown alloy, is the only MTB to ever last me more than two years without breaking - going on 11 or 12 years old now. And most of the miles over the past two years have been with a rigid fork on rough singletrack. To be fair, I never had an aluminum mtb frame that fit me well enough for my liking, and so I got rid of them before I had a chance to evaluate long-term durability. I recently broke my first aluminum frame - a touring bike I had been riding extensively off-road. All my other broken frames were supposedly good quality steel.
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I don't deny that. But as hard on stuff as I am, my Ti frame keeps on tickin'
Someone gave me a Nashbar Reynolds 853 mtb frame a couple years ago. My friend thought my Ti frame was super comfy and ordered the Nashbar one because it has similar geometry, but then realized he much preferred his full suspension mtb. The frame looks well made and very light, but I doubt I will get a long life out of it if I ever build it up.
Someone gave me a Nashbar Reynolds 853 mtb frame a couple years ago. My friend thought my Ti frame was super comfy and ordered the Nashbar one because it has similar geometry, but then realized he much preferred his full suspension mtb. The frame looks well made and very light, but I doubt I will get a long life out of it if I ever build it up.
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Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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Those Autoshift bikes were so dreadfully bad that I expect they discouraged anyone who bought one from ever bicycling again. One of the problems with this and most other X-Mart BSO's is that they give a terrible first impression to potential riders, most of whom never come back and try something better.
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Those Autoshift bikes were so dreadfully bad that I expect they discouraged anyone who bought one from ever bicycling again. One of the problems with this and most other X-Mart BSO's is that they give a terrible first impression to potential riders, most of whom never come back and try something better.
The old 'why would I pay $500 for a bike when I don't even enjoy riding my $79 bike' syndrome.
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i see no benefit from titanium handlebars other than changing up the natural frequency of your handlebars (when compared to alum, steel, carbon)
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It can be, but that's not the issue. To take full advantage of Ti's properties, you'd have to increase the tube diameter (as is done with frames). Since you're constrained by standards for clamp diameter, and the grip diameter of a taped bar, that's not generally an option. So, aluminum whose lower density allows using more metal (by volume) works out fine for bars. CF also works, but also calls for larger diameters, which is why we've moved from the old 26mm clamp size to 31.8mm.
Can you make a decent Ti bar, of course. But the cost/weight/stiffness numbers make it a poor choice for the job.
Can you make a decent Ti bar, of course. But the cost/weight/stiffness numbers make it a poor choice for the job.
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