Direct Mount Brakes
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Direct Mount Brakes
I originally had a 2012 Madone 5.2 with Ultegra 10 speed shifters and Ultegra Canti Brakes. The frame was damaged and Trek replaced it with a 2014 5.9 Frame that came with the Bontrager Direct Mount Brakes( which suck) and the balance my original components switched over. I read something on here about cable pull being different on the 11 speed shifters ( which I don't have ) and wondered if my issues with the brakes could be brifter compatibility related. I can't lock the rear wheel without setting the pads so close they rub and the front has a very long pull unlike my original Ultegra's.
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I don't have first hand experience but I found this- Trek Madone brake surgery - Slowtwitch.com
Hopefully it helps
Hopefully it helps
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I don't have first hand experience but I found this- Trek Madone brake surgery - Slowtwitch.com
Hopefully it helps
Hopefully it helps
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Canti brakes? The Trek web site shows the 2012 Madone 5.2 has Ultegra Caliper brakes and, in fact there have never been Ultegra labeled canti brakes. The compatibility between current Shimano caliper brakes, standard or direct mount depends on which generation of STI's you have.
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There are many variables that affect brake performance. But let's deal with the simplest to assess-- leverage.
Despite advert claims the leverage issue is really simple. You have roughly 2" of lever travel, and need a few millimeters of shoe travel. Those are inherent properties of all rim brakes, with little room to maneuver. If you want to increase the rim/shoe clearance, you have to lower the leverage or get bigger hands. If you want more leverage, you need to accept less shoe clearance.
Now the leverage is determined in two steps, within the caliper and within the lever. Different brakes have different leverage in the calipers, and the makers compensate with levers that restore the total leverage ratio to the target range. That means that mixing levers and calipers can change the leverage ratio, causing high leverage brakes that barely open, or brakes that call for excess lever travel.
You're excess lever travel could be from poor (too open) adjustment, but if the shoes barely open, and you have excess lever travel, then it sounds like a parts mismatch.
There are other factors, such as flex or sloppiness in the caliper (it's rare in the lever), poor shoe selection, excess toe-in, etc. but start by confirming that roughly 1" of travel is enough to move the shoes 4mm or so leaving 2mm open clearance.
Despite advert claims the leverage issue is really simple. You have roughly 2" of lever travel, and need a few millimeters of shoe travel. Those are inherent properties of all rim brakes, with little room to maneuver. If you want to increase the rim/shoe clearance, you have to lower the leverage or get bigger hands. If you want more leverage, you need to accept less shoe clearance.
Now the leverage is determined in two steps, within the caliper and within the lever. Different brakes have different leverage in the calipers, and the makers compensate with levers that restore the total leverage ratio to the target range. That means that mixing levers and calipers can change the leverage ratio, causing high leverage brakes that barely open, or brakes that call for excess lever travel.
You're excess lever travel could be from poor (too open) adjustment, but if the shoes barely open, and you have excess lever travel, then it sounds like a parts mismatch.
There are other factors, such as flex or sloppiness in the caliper (it's rare in the lever), poor shoe selection, excess toe-in, etc. but start by confirming that roughly 1" of travel is enough to move the shoes 4mm or so leaving 2mm open clearance.
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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Canti brakes? The Trek web site shows the 2012 Madone 5.2 has Ultegra Caliper brakes and, in fact there have never been Ultegra labeled canti brakes. The compatibility between current Shimano caliper brakes, standard or direct mount depends on which generation of STI's you have.
It is the 6700 series groupset.
Last edited by spdracr39; 02-25-15 at 11:22 AM.
#7
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There are many variables that affect brake performance. But let's deal with the simplest to assess-- leverage.
Despite advert claims the leverage issue is really simple. You have roughly 2" of lever travel, and need a few millimeters of shoe travel. Those are inherent properties of all rim brakes, with little room to maneuver. If you want to increase the rim/shoe clearance, you have to lower the leverage or get bigger hands. If you want more leverage, you need to accept less shoe clearance.
Now the leverage is determined in two steps, within the caliper and within the lever. Different brakes have different leverage in the calipers, and the makers compensate with levers that restore the total leverage ratio to the target range. That means that mixing levers and calipers can change the leverage ratio, causing high leverage brakes that barely open, or brakes that call for excess lever travel.
You're excess lever travel could be from poor (too open) adjustment, but if the shoes barely open, and you have excess lever travel, then it sounds like a parts mismatch.
There are other factors, such as flex or sloppiness in the caliper (it's rare in the lever), poor shoe selection, excess toe-in, etc. but start by confirming that roughly 1" of travel is enough to move the shoes 4mm or so leaving 2mm open clearance.
Despite advert claims the leverage issue is really simple. You have roughly 2" of lever travel, and need a few millimeters of shoe travel. Those are inherent properties of all rim brakes, with little room to maneuver. If you want to increase the rim/shoe clearance, you have to lower the leverage or get bigger hands. If you want more leverage, you need to accept less shoe clearance.
Now the leverage is determined in two steps, within the caliper and within the lever. Different brakes have different leverage in the calipers, and the makers compensate with levers that restore the total leverage ratio to the target range. That means that mixing levers and calipers can change the leverage ratio, causing high leverage brakes that barely open, or brakes that call for excess lever travel.
You're excess lever travel could be from poor (too open) adjustment, but if the shoes barely open, and you have excess lever travel, then it sounds like a parts mismatch.
There are other factors, such as flex or sloppiness in the caliper (it's rare in the lever), poor shoe selection, excess toe-in, etc. but start by confirming that roughly 1" of travel is enough to move the shoes 4mm or so leaving 2mm open clearance.
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The Bont and Shimano direct mount brakes have a design feature which changes the cable pull/pad movement ratio. It is possible that the shop didn't choose the correct set up. Having said that I don't like these brakes. I've only dealt with a half dozen, or so, of them and don't yet have all the tuning aspects down pat (or I would have been far more descriptive in the cable pull adjustment). But they suffer from centering challenges and as alluded their set up is different them classic calipers. One aspect is that one can't rotate the entire caliper to effect the centering. Instead the cam gets moved to prod the arms to center. Failure to do this means that one pad will contact the rim first, then the other second. A sure way to decrease the clamping pressure. Andy.
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The Bont and Shimano direct mount brakes have a design feature which changes the cable pull/pad movement ratio. It is possible that the shop didn't choose the correct set up. Having said that I don't like these brakes. I've only dealt with a half dozen, or so, of them and don't yet have all the tuning aspects down pat (or I would have been far more descriptive in the cable pull adjustment). But they suffer from centering challenges and as alluded their set up is different them classic calipers. One aspect is that one can't rotate the entire caliper to effect the centering. Instead the cam gets moved to prod the arms to center. Failure to do this means that one pad will contact the rim first, then the other second. A sure way to decrease the clamping pressure. Andy.
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Sorry I don't have enough experience to say how much nicer the DA is over the Bont. But the fit and finish is better. Andy.
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According to this article:
Reviewed: Disc who? Shimano?s rim brakes of the future - VeloNews.com
The Shimano direct mount brakes work much better than the ones on your bike
Reviewed: Disc who? Shimano?s rim brakes of the future - VeloNews.com
The Shimano direct mount brakes work much better than the ones on your bike
#12
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What are direct mount brakes, I've never heard of them.
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#14
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Well after completely starting over, readjusting everything using a feeler gauge, centering using the Shimano set screw (h), and cleaning the brake track on the wheels I finally have brakes that perform very well. The adjustments on these brakes are minute and critical. A toe in of 1/32 and clearance of only .020 I think was the key.
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.020" of pad/rim clearance is not real world for me. Just one more reason why some of us stopped drinking the kool aid long ago. Andy.
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Arts cyclery video on direct mount brakes: Ask a Mechanic: Setting up Shimano direct mount brakes
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That was the smallest gap I could have where the brakes didn't rub under power. It gives me max braking at just past half pull on the lever. Any wider and I could not lock the rear brakes while riding.
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Arts cyclery video on direct mount brakes: Ask a Mechanic: Setting up Shimano direct mount brakes