IthaDan 

Wait,

You bought this bike from the same shop you took it to. The cone slipped out of adjustment enough to become an issue. Did they set up your bike improperly? Is this not just an issue of poor customer service, but a warranty issue?

fietsbob

As the wheel fashions change the vendors who supply the parts change their designs .

the Collector's Car Market makes the replication of Model T Ford parts available, because collectors Have the disposable income.

Amesja

Cones don't so much as wear out, but are damaged from neglect and/or time. Let the grease run dry or get gritty and the bearings will wear it out in short order with a few hundred miles.

Most often, a pit will form over time through galvanic corrosion as one bearing micro-welds itself to the surface of the cone. This happens when a bike sits for years with old grease that has been water-logged. Why it hardly ever does this to the face of the hub race I don't really know. Maybe the cone material is more susceptible to this kind of thing. As the grease fails and moisture and crap get into the bearings and the wheel just sits there it'll eventually weld itself to the surface and when the bearings move again it'll pull up a divot and leave a tiny pit behind. With each rotation every ball will drop into this tiny divot and it will get slammed with that force over and over again, making it bigger. Just like a pothole in a road. Once it appears it is already too late to do anything about it. I've seen this many times on old barn-find vintage bikes. Everything will look fine in the bearings except for one cone will have 1,2, or 3 small divots on the cones from this effect. Ride them, and they will just expand and get worse.

The cone i had to buy last time was from a wheel my non-cycling friend found in his back yard last spring. I guess someone ditched it there the year before and when my friend was raking leaves after the snow melted he found this wheel. The original owner is long gone by now. Either he left it there himself after a flat tire, or some punk stole it from him. Maybe he was a punk himself who ditched a flat and stole someone else's wheel to get home and never came back for it. Who knows? The wheel didn't look too bad having over-wintered under a pile of leaves and a snow drift behind my friend's house. He was literally going to throw this wheel into the recycle dumpster when I rescued it.

It was a decent wheel with butted spokes, a Fuji CGC hub, an Alex DC19 rim, and sporting a Shimano 105 CS-5600 10-speed cassette. The tire was totally knackered and wore through the cords and the tube had a tiny snakebite. So that's where my guess above came from regarding the provenance of how it got there. Not a bad dumpster-find though.

But the DS cone had a tiny divit in the surface. A lot of mechanics would have just left it and rebuilt it as "good enough." But I intend to use this as a spare rando wheel. I want to be able to throw it on and run a Century or even a 400k rando ride without having to worry about it. So I swapped the DS and NDS cones and ordered a new Wheels cone that wasn't quite a perfect match. This ensured a perfect factory-stock DS alignment and only required me to swap around some different spacers and axle washers on the NDS side which was much more accessible than trying to get a wrench into the hub body and adjust that side. $11.50 is cheap insurance. I'm sure when I sell the 10-speed cassette on CL I'll get my money back out of this free wheel.

I've got to clean up that 105 10-speed cassette, but it looks in really great shape and tests good on my Rohloff cog-checker.

SquidPuppet

Wow.

Bill Kapaun

1. They are far from "of every size".
2. They are still on the spendy side unless you end up using almost all of them.

I bought a "close out" kit of their older Shimano styles that they were no longer making, for a reduced price.
It was still neither cheap and doesn't fit all the older Shimano cones. I have maybe a 60% success rate of matching an older Shimano cone.

CliffordK

When you got to the Wheels MFG site, they list a Shimano Cone Kit 1, Shimano Cone Kit 2, and a Taiwanese Cone Kit, each for about $100 MSRP (undoubedly less wholesale), with a total of about 26 different cone sizes and styles. Or one could go through and buy a handful of each.

Yes, it is not all inclusive, but it would give a good selection.

Some cones seem to last absolutely forever.
Some don't.
The OP's bike is a 2014 Trek 7.4fx, a moderate priced Hybrid. However, if the hubs have cones, and no brand markings, it is quite possible they are made with bargain basement parts.

With Shimano, Ultegra, Dura Ace, 105, are typically silky smooth.
On the other hand, Capreo, Alivio, and the cheaper models all feel like they are full of gravel when new. And, it isn't something that can simply be adjusted out. At least with Shimano, the races seem to be a higher quality than the cones in the cheap hubs.

The cheaper ones inevitably have some kind of a black surface on the cones which rubs off in a couple of miles down the road, but the roughness doesn't disappear, and I believe contributes to rapid wear (perhaps also throws them out of adjustment).

CliffordK

I don't know about the case hardening. Perhaps that is a myth. I doubt it is universal for all manufactures. Campy Record?

I sent Wheels MFG a query about their cones and was blown off.

That kind of response just doesn't inspire confidence in me.

fietsbob

Replace the whole axle assembly with another one that is using the same Ball bearing size.. if the thread mis match is the Issue.



Remember The Businesses are MFG> to Distributor> To Retail dealer

if the order was for a Truckload and you were the distributor then you have a Better money speaks reception

You in a Materials science Department could cut a cone in to a thin slice with a Diamond saw, Cooled, so as to cut but not heat it ,

then under a Microscope perhaps see what the tempering surface changes May Be ..

Grinding to a smooth surface, polishing and then re Heat trating it yourself can be done .. heating and quencing is the processes

Is it worth it? Probably not if you don't already have the Shop of your Own tooled up to Do It.

dwmckee

Thank you for your unresearched opinions. Here are some facts about resurfacing cones.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...-compound.html

If you search on the forum you will find additional information as well about resurfacing cones (some good, some not so good). If the cone you need is readily available then I also would just purchase another, but if your cone is hard to find and the pitting is not too extensive the link has information that can be used to resurface the cone. The one in the link was done by me several years ago and has several thousand miles on it after resurfacing. This required no special equipment or precise machining. The case hardening of the cone will not be ground through unless you ground for several hours which is far longer than necessary to remove rust and pitting.

Again, I would purchase a replacement if I could find one but if not resurfacing would take a few hours and is a serviceable alternative.

Amesja

Turning a concrete roadway into a gravel path.

Go ahead and do it. It's your bike. I sure as hell hope you aren't doing this to any customer's bikes. You might get a few hundred miles out of these cheesball Red Green "mechanical" fixes. But it's really some lowbrow trailer wrenching.

TakingMyTime

Well, I did email Trek and I was able to find out that the hubs on my bike are...

When it comes the hubs, the front is FM21 made by Formula. The rear is a Shimano FH-RM30. If you have any other questions let me know.

ThermionicScott 

Aha! Looks like this is what you need, then: Wheel Master Front Hub Axle Cone - 3/8", FM21

If that looks like what you have, it wouldn't hurt to buy a couple. That way, you'll spread out the shipping cost and have a spare.

dwmckee

Again, unresearched opinions vs. demonstrated factual experience. Readers can follow as they please.

If you can find a replacement cone then buying a new one is easily the best way to go. If your cone is very hard to find then resurfacing can be a viable alternative proven by myself and others you can find by seraching other links in the forum. It would not be my first choice, but in a pinch it can fill the need. I have a few thousand miles on a resurfaced cone with no problems at all.

Amesja

Seems that of all the cones I had to replace nearly all of them were due to neglect and/or age. I think that with wheels and headsets the balls sit in one spot for a while and if the grease is old or has been contaminated by moisture the balls will electrolytic weld to the cone in one, two, and sometimes three places and leave pits. This almost never happens to the hub races for some reason. Maybe the materials are slightly different due to the different way they are made. I tear apart a lot of barn finds and I will often find cones with just one or two very small pits in them right where the bearings were sitting on the bearing track. I'm sure if these bikes were ridden the cones would self-destruct in a short time. In fact, I've done quite a few restorations on bikes where people have taken them out of decades-long storage, ridden them a bit, and I've seen this very type of fresh cone damage and the tiny pits where they started.

Once a bearing cone has pitted it is toast. They are fairly cheap to replace if you can find them. Often you can just replace the whole axle with a kit. I get a laugh out of people who try and repair this kind of damage. It seems to me like trying to bake back on a partial loaf of bread that has been half-eaten. I'm sure it is technically possible given some Yankee ingenuity, but why bother? Cones are cheap. Unless it is some rare collector's item unobtanium part just fix it the right way, not like Red Green.

This forum gets all types. Ya gotta love em. Get out the duct tape...

Willbird

It is generally easier to machine parts from length of round stock than it is to cast them to finished shape :-). Back in the day a Brown and Sharpe screw Machine banged them out. Casting is generally used for more complex shapes.

CliffordK

I don't think I have the FM21.

The RM30 has absolutely horrendous cones.

One would expect so. But, then one would expect to find circumferential machining marks, or to have a polished surface. The RM30 class of cones has a rough black surface on them. It is impossible to adjust away a "Gravel" feeling in the bearings. Eventually with use one will wear a shiny track around them, but the roughness seems to remain, and I believe contributes to premature pitting, which is why I toss them on the lathe, sand them for a couple of minutes with 300 sandpaper, then with 600 to 1000 sandpaper, giving a nice polished look, and a much smoother feel. The Shimano races seem to be fine, and I think the bearings are ok too. Just cheap cones.

Light circumferential scarring from sanding/machining is much less damaging than the random pitting that the cones have.

I suppose there could be other post-processing that gives the rough black texture to the cones. Sometimes with too light of polishing one is left with black speckles, indicating that some of the surface imperfections run deep.

Willbird

I suppose they could be using some kind of powdered metal process too, or maybe MIM (metal injection molding)?. But those two technologies would not offer huge advantage for the part shape, that usually has a tapped hole in it anyway. They could be cold headed too I suppose depending on alloy. Carburised and case hardened steel is what I would expect them to be made of.

And yes roundy roundy marks are much better :-).

dwmckee

Finishing with 1000 grit sandpaper would leave a much rougher surface that even the cheapest factory polished cones.

dwmckee

Like I said, people can listen to opinions or actual demonstrated factual experience.

Moderately pitted cones that are hard to replace can be resurfaced for about $3 of valve grinding compound and about an hour of invested time. I would not bother if you can find a replacement easily, but if you cannot this is a viable and proven alternative.

CliffordK

The problem is that they aren't polishing many of the cones in the factory.
Your Record, Dura Ace, Ultegra cones will be polished.

But the cheaper ones aren't, and are just plain rough.

By polishing with a lathe or drill, or other spinning apparatus, all the grooves go around the cone. which still leaves a smooth rolling surface for the bearings, whether or not there are microscopic groves.

A couple of the cones I recently purchased apparently have a zinc coating on the rolling surface. I have no doubt that would wear away quickly. Perhaps I should have tried it. The soft material would have been interesting, but it would also have rapidly thrown the cones out of adjustment.

The races on my Mongoose Massif were actually painted black. "High Carbon"??? Again paint does not make a strong surface long lasting surface.

I have no doubt that Shimano could put quality cones in all of their hubs. But it is poor marketing to build a $10 hub and a $200 hub to the same specs. And it may well be that those companies selling bikes for less than the cost of a single Dura Ace or Campy Record hub expect those bikes to suffer a catastrophic failure rather quickly. It is good to make people perceive their bikes will last 50 years, when in fact they may not last a single year of hard riding.

Little Darwin

One quick comment on approaching the owner/manager of the shop versus not shopping there.

Not shopping there is not going to make a difference unless they know it. Unless they greet you by name and give you the special "TakingMyTime" discount, they will probably have no idea that you have stopped shopping there. Even in that case, they will only know they haven't seen you for a while... many things can lead to not seeing you in the shop, such as your moving, you not needing any parts, or maybe even that you stopped cycling...

For the good of others, let the shop know. If your mind is made up no matter how they respond, then you can do it in an anonymous letter, just do something to potentially help other cyclists in your area.

Jimsl78

I concur with this way of thinking, but to further that you just bought a bike from these guys and may or may not be a repeat customer. Same goes for the manufacturer.
I would approach the owner and make sure this person realizes this. They should be thankful you are giving them another chance to earn your business.
They have the resources to get this part (if they want to make the effort) so why should you go through the trouble?
If they still don't do the right thing, I would prefer to spend more time and effort getting in touch of the manufacturer than just letting this go and fixing it myself. It's all about principle, and these days people seem to need to be reminded of that.

Centaurious

In the six days this thread has been going a competent machine shop could have Threaded, Turned, Machined Flats (if necessary). Heat Treated, and Finish Ground a new cone and had many days for other work.


Someone should hire Chris King to start making custom replacement cones, get you some of that 24k or NeoChrome finish going on!

Amesja

+1

Or some hack on these forums could whittle one out of wood or maybe some old stale cheese.

Jimsl78

But of course!
(you have a friend who is a machinist)

Any competent machine shop makes money on the real "bread and butter" customers who give them repeat business. To take time away from this for a small one off job, they are doing you big a favor. It probably won't be cheap but who cares? You sure proved those guys at the LBS wrong!