soad

what do you guys think about this bike for a beginner person into flatlanding? https://www.khebikes.com/2005/bikes/05_flat1.htm

Brian

Reminds me of the singer Pink - cheap and ugly.

queensrider86

BMXTRIX would know.

It looks good to me, seeing that it has small gearing, a freecoaster, and has some 4130

BMXTRIX

If you buy a KHE I will beat you personally...

This is the first, last, and only bike that beginners should be looking at on a budget:
https://www.flatlandfuel.com/ -> store -> complete bikes -> DK Signal

Brian

Not many places are willing to offer that kind of personalized service these days.

MadMan2k

Would the geometry and/or parts of the Signal be acceptable for a little skate park/street riding?

Somewhat on topic even if it's a question for me

soad

that bike doesn't look like a flatland bike. arent flatland bikes supposed to have larger gearing? whats wrong with KHE? can you tell me what i should look for in a flatland bike?

soad

also, i dont think my bike shop can get DK.

CMcMahon

The insanely ******** brake system, the proprietary headset/gyro, the fact that their frames are hideous...

soad

yeh, i was kinda wondering on the headset thing, i've never seen anything like it before, although it does look nice.


i like the way the frame looks

CMcMahon

That one actually isn't that bad, but that headtube would make any frame look gross.

hypersnazz

Is there something especially janky about KHE I'm just missing here? From what little I've heard the weird internal detangler thing looks kinda odd but works fine. I'm kinda diggin' the colors, too...had it up to my neck in ******** black, raw and brown. The KHE is also much more flatland-specific where the DK is still very much a 'missing link' somewhere between street and flat geometry (almost all 'entry-level' flatland bikes aren't flatland bikes). If you plan on riding any street at all I would avoid a purely flatland-suited frame for now, and stick with 2-pc over 8-pc bars with a little sweep since they can stand up to a little more abuse. Personally I rode a missing link for a long time, worked fine and then when I had the money and the opportunity my bike performed a sort of mitosis and two bikes grew out of it...one purely for flatland with a 19" Quamen frame and the other purely for street with the old Haro frame (now it's an S&M). After 3 years or so on a street frame, just dropping the inch or so and bringing the bike closer together made an ENORMOUS difference. I was pitching myself over the bars for weeks before I started to get my squeakers and shaky hang-5s back but it was *tight*. The bike was so much easier to move around on and to move around my body. The downside is, you can pretty much forget about riding street...flatland frames are squirrely (steeper head tube and shorter wheelbase) and just *tiny* overall.

The long and the short on the DK is it's a great bike that takes into account a little street riding now and again. If they're still shipping with the jankified Taska or whatever generic freecoaster is out there these days (the infamous Hoffman EP nightmare freecoaster), I would save my pennies and replace it with a Nankai or a Reloader at your earliest convenience. Even if it's not the one I'm thinking of, freecoasters are tempermental enough as it is without also being *cheap*.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the KHE (again, no personal experience but the specs look fine for what you're asking it to do), but it's purely a flatland bike...flatland geometry, 8-pc flatland bars (0 sweep), short reach stem and low-offset forks. It's also got a 36-hole wheelset, a luxury when you start grabbing your wheels in and repeatedly jam or rack your knuckles on closely-laced 48s. It's also over 100 bucks more than the DK, but for that I'm guessing maybe a nicer freecoaster (big plus, those things are expensive), and definitely upgraded brakes.

Brian

By itself, the color is not bad. But the frame is far from aesthetically pleasing. Even this would be excusable if the cause of the ugliness wasn't a proprietary headset/gyro combo. I would never buy it, as it's not my style, so I can only offer my biased opinion.

hypersnazz

Um...it's a flatland frame. That's what flatland frames look like, huge gusseting or extra tubing to close up the front triangle and bring the down tube in closer (mine's actually up under the BB shell making the BB look like a big cylindrical unitesticle). The head tube angle is steeper and forks have low or in many cases zero offset, bringing the front tire WAY in close and requiring the need for even more frame clearance to allow you to scuff under it. The only thing I kinda prefer in a flat frame the KHE doesn't have is a more compact rear triangle with seat stays ending just under the top tube.

Brian

I guess I'll never own a proper flatland frame then. It's the head tube that looks like a Starbuck's travel mug that I don't like though.

CMcMahon

Yeah, but have you thought about what would happen if you snapped a cable? You have to take apart the whole front end of the bike just to replace one.

BMXTRIX

If KHE would offer their bikes without that headset it would be a different story, but those headsets completely kill the entire deal. I have spoken with more than a dozen riders who have owned KHE bikes and every single one (every one!) has had issues with the headset and for those who have run rear brakes the detangler is nothing but a nightmare to work on with brake cables breaking frequently and taking far to long to change.

Are you going to walk into a bike shop and say "I need a 2.5" headset please." and actually expect a response other than "Huh?".

The Signal gives people chrome plated rims which provide superior braking.
A basic DK freecoaster which I haven't heard major complaints about.
Straightforward decent frame geometry and design - no crazy non-standard stuff
Good aluminum pegs x 4
Nice tight small gearing

Really, it is an overall design winner for the entry level rider and since the frame is steel you can just go ride some light street with no problem - just avoid grinds with those aluminum pegs (get cheap steel ones if you want).

Heck, I ride some light street on my Ares Choise frame which is aluminum with no problems. Did on my Show too... before it cracked in 5 places in one day.

KHE just doesn't give you the same stuff that DK does, with chrome plated rims being the single biggest thing. Look at almost any pro rider out there who is running brakes... chrome rims are an absolute requirement. In flatland even moreso.

The better items (perhaps) on the KHE would be the stem and bars.

The better parts on the Signal: Frame and rims

Much easier to upgrade stem and bars than get a new frame and new wheelset.

Brian

Exactly. I have a Cannondale 1.5 Headshok frame. It was easier to buy a Cane Creek headset that converted it to 1 1/8" than try to get parts.

hypersnazz

So the integrated headset/detangler is garbage. That's much easier to respect than "this bike looks like ass and this one doesn't." We move on from there. To KHE's credit I *was* able to find plenty of documentation, technical reference and detailed exploded views when I first started hearing about these things like a year ago, and parts were easy to come by, they're just not stocked in-house. I didn't really *care* at the time 'cause we'd get all of maybe 2 vaguely flatland-related questions a year in that shop and we sure as hell didn't see any reason to dig too deep into it when we got a display case full of G3s and GTX-Rs in the store and not a KHE frame in sight.

For the beginning flatlander I'd lean towards the hybrid style street/flat geometry myself for the versatility (that's the way I did it myself), never really argued that point. And while you're not LOCKING yourself into riding strictly flat with 18.75" worth of top tube, 76 degree head angle and 13.2" rear, it's certainly tricky keeping the bike under control in the air or on a sketchy landing. When my bikes split in two I was without a street bike for a couple months and rode the Quamen exclusively, street, flat, park, vert. It can be done, but I was happy when I was back on a longer bike and not so afraid I was gonna dive over the bars every time I dropped back in.

I'll be the first to say it looks a little weird, too...here's what 6'1" on a 19" flatland bike (steel half-knurled pegs, of course) looks like grinding backwards atop a 6' mini at Rhoades. You be the judge.



EDIT: If my feet look close together it's 'cause they are. 165mm on the arms, yessir. =)

CMcMahon

Nice fedora. Or whatever that hat you have on is.

Brian

Dr. Jones?

hypersnazz

It's actually a big burly outback style hat from REI. I highly recommend a hat like that for anyone whose hobbies include going on epic adventures. You need a hat for that kind of stuff and not just any hat will do. You need a proper adventure hat.

Brian

Outback style? Ha! Drive over with with a truck a few times, and it's a proper Aussie hat. Enough abuse though. I've got a proper Akubra - the Aussie Stetson. They're not just cowboy hats - they come in all styles. The Tilley is a better adventure hat though. Google them. They're the best, no question. Which leads me to my question. Why do you need an adventure hat when riding indoors?

hypersnazz

Oh, this hat's seen its fair share of adventuring (and rough trips through the washing machine and dryer). I'm familiar with Akubra, I know what they are, I know my hat's not an Akubra but I know it's not a cheap nylon pretender, either.

Rhoades isn't indoors, it's under two adjacent overpasses. The one and only indoor park less than 6 hours away from Boise (Lucky 13 or something) shut down when all the free city parks opened up and the revenue dried up. Which was sorta lame 'cause before I moved to CA it meant I'd get two short seasons to ride before it's either raining / snowing or too damn hot to move, let alone ride.

CMcMahon

So basically you need a fedora.