jmeb

Bit confused by this bike. A little research suggests it may be 531 main triangle and well built. The frame looks well constructed and in very good shape. Is that possibly a reynolds sticker on the seat tube in the first photo? But components hanging off it look pretty low end -- steel cottered crank, odd looking derailleur, apparently steel rims? Photos below. I think I could pick it up ~$160-70. It's in my size and would be destined for the collection/rider. I've had a hankering for a British bike from the era, have mostly been hunting for a Super Course.

Thoughts?

A few shots:

bertinjim 

jmeb-

This is the Carlton model parallel to the Super Course. It looks like a 531 PG sticker on the seat tube and the workmanship and finish seems well above typical bike boom Raleigh standards. Seems like all the OEM equipment is there as well except for the B 17. It's a lovely specimen that appears to fit both your collection and you.

jmeb

Thanks for the confirmation. I'll call the seller as soon as it reaches a decent hour. Of course I'll end up throwing way more at the bike if I end up with it. Ce la vie.

Any ideas on whether these Carltons have standard english threading or weirdo Raleigh stuff?

jmeb

Going to see it this evening. Without the B17 and potentially steel rims (???) I feel like the asking $195 is a bit over priced?

dailycommute

Frame looks good. Certainly that large a size generally commands a discount esp if steel rims and you need to budget a wheelset.

jmeb

I forget my size should generally be a slight discount -- I get too excited when I see them.

Of course, I'll pretend that I don't have other wheelsets in my basment to swap in....

bertinjim 

jmeb-

Typically, Carlton used standard British threading, or did on the two I have owned - one Carlton branded and the other a Raleigh Super Course.

jmeb

Thanks for the advice. For reference I talked the seller down to $120 because he had mucked up the Huret Allvit derailleur trying to fix it and the steel rims. They're dunlop special lightweights to normandy hubs, so pretty nice as far as steel wheels go.

Paint is in great shape (9/10) and very vivid. It will likely be converted to a 3-speed clubman-esque build as I have little patience for the wheels and Allvit, and I happen to have an S3X wheelset around with good rubber.

repechage

If the rims are the original Dunlop steel rims, and it might be as it looks 32/40 spoke count wheels…
Run. And don't haggle.

Don't ask about the Reynolds transfer either. My families' pair had a transfer that stated Reynolds plain gauge throughout, a cut above the Super Course.
A 23" frame (this is bigger) tipped the scales at 24 lbs, all up.

jmeb

Already bought it. Here are photos of the Reyonlds transfer and Dunlop rims. I tried these rims this morning with fresh pads and was very underwhelmed. Planning on swapping them out with an S3X wheelset I have on hand for a build I'll enjoy riding more. The way you phrase implies they are worth something to someone? This is the oldest bike I own, so I'm not sure about the usefulness/collectability of these parts.

EDIT: I must also say the seller was mostly clueless. He was an older guy, with tons of bikes he was flipping. Super friendly and wanted to show me everything he was doing. When I got there he had ripped off the Huret derailleur and was trying to replace it with some 90s low-end Shimano piece on the same hanger. I asked him to stop immediately, tried to gather the bits and bobs of the Huret Allvit, checked that frame straight, and that stem/seatpost moved and made an offer. That this was probably a good deal for me never crossed his mind as it was just "old but in good shape." He tried to "upsell" me on a mid-80s SR-branded bike of HiTen steel and stem shifters.

repechage

The Dunlop Special Lightweight rims do have a following, especially if dent free.
As the wheels look to be 32/40, I would look into selling them complete if aluminum is what you really want.
Your bike is a later one unfortunately, stating only the three main tubes to be Reynolds, at least they are butted.

3alarmer 

...if you ever want to sell it to someone more interested in authentic and original, as opposed to functional rider, you might want to save those rims/wheels.

I think a bike of that quality and age in that condition was a pretty good deal at that price, but what do I know ? Anyway, it sounds like you are a more appreciative owner.
In their day, these were considered pretty decent bikes. Not light by any standard, but a nice stretched geometry and a smooth, forgiving ride...not unlike the Super Course of the era.

Mine:

I should ride it more, but have a lot going on right now. The Williams cottered crank is also highly regarded by olde bike guys, so don't toss it if you change it out.

jmeb

Very helpful advice--both of you. And a beautiful bike @3alarmer. A quick spin around the block indicated they are dent free. I haven't take the tires off yet to look at the interior condition of the rims. Minor out-of-trues, but they straightened out nicely by fixing a couple of well-too-loose spokes.

I think the question to me now is do I remake it into something I'll ride or sell it to someone who will keep it fully original. The conversion I was considering would require spacing the frame out to 130 to fit the S3X wheelset I have and was thinking of putting on it. I suspect I'd have to make a bit of a profit if I chose to sell it in order to build the clubman-esque ride I was thinking of.

What do you all think would be a fair sale price for the bike in similar condition to @3alarmer 's with full original kit (includ. the Dunlop wheels)? 300? 400? to the right buyer?

repechage

Sad truth I have seen the wheels sell for more than half of tha asking price of the bike.
While Williams quality suffered a bit later, the cranks have followers too.
The bike is big, tall guys are cheap.
For the highest return, part it out.

jmeb

I don't feel right parting it out. Either I will rebuild it as a rider for myself (maybe I can find a 120mm spaced 3-speed aluminium wheelset) and keep all original parts nearby, or I'll sell it off altogether. It isn't showroom perfect anyhow. Just closer than the rest of my fleet.

jmeb

I don't feel right parting it out. Either I will rebuild it as a rider for myself (maybe I can find a 120mm spaced 3-speed aluminium wheelset) and keep all original parts nearby, or I'll sell it off altogether. It isn't showroom perfect anyhow. Just closer than the rest of my fleet.

And since you've all been so helpful, perhaps you can help me with dating it? I guessed ~1970, although most references to the Dunlop Special Lightweights are earlier than that. Here are the stampings/markings I could find on the bike. (Stripped it down to the frame for cleaning except cranks as I don't have a way to remove cottered cranks at the moment.)

Sorry for all the lint in the photos. These rags on this paint leave a mess.

3alarmer 

...I honestly don't have a clue on the serial number/date coding on these.
Mine is, by all accounts, from 1965, and the coding on the dropout is:

I would think a person in my location (near the NorCal bay area, but on the fringes of it) would be happy to pay $300-400 for that bike. But we are a notoriously high marketplace, and you would need to locate someone it fits, and who is looking for an older bike. Down in San Fran that's usually pretty easy, here in Sacramento it can take longer. OTOH, sometimes that guy just shows up like magic. E-bay is a bigger audience, but so painful with their procedures/shipping as to be unattractive to me.

I don't think you would hurt it by respacing it to your needs and then respacing it again to the original at some future date.

The drops are mild stamped, and pretty bendable, the frame tubing is straight gauge, and the geometry is not particularly tight. I would do it, were that the way I wanted it as a rider. But certainly there are AW Sturmy hubs bouncing around with an OLD of 120, (and probably others of the newer ones). Sorry, wish I knew more about them.