vintagerando

I have to take the rose color shades off when I go to view a potential bike purchase. This is not quite C&V, so pardon me. I bought a Waterford 1200 for $200 from Craigs List. I got it home; the rust is far worse than I thought. It came with two Ritchey stems, tubulars with Ultegra tri-color 600 hubs, Ultegra cranks and Ultegra brifters. I am considering calling the seller back. So, what are your thoughts on the rust here? Can I treat the frame with Frame Saver, build it up and ride it? What should I look closer at? What a downer; I was really excited about this.
I am going to bring it to my LBS and get their opinion too.
What are your thoughts? Thanks.

3alarmer 

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...I've redone bikes that were far worse than yours. I don't do very many of them any more because it's a lot of extra work, but that rust on the BB shell is pretty minor stuff.

What does happen a lot in these cases is you find a lot of rust on the interior of the tubes when you open the bike up, and while it probably won't explode, it's worrisome if you want to do a good job. The only sane approach for that is to strip the frame and fork, and carefully do the oxalic acid bath treatment (Google it...there are threads on it here). It won't hurt the bike, but the stuff can be absorbed through the skin and you should wear gloves....it can concentrate in the kidneys.

If it's not all that bad inside, I just spray with Rustoleum anti corrosion oil (Home Depot), and tip the frame every which way to coat the interior. Let dry and recoat again.



All this is much easier to do outside, in the summer when it's warm. What I see of your paint does not look terrible..........you might want to just rub it down, polish and wax it and then see where it's at and if you can live with it.

If you spot any rusting through the tubes in the thinner middle sections, than maybe you ought to be worried, but you gotta expect some extra work for a $200 Waterford.

FBinNY 

Like Mike, I didn't see anything to worry about. Unlike him I don't expect serious rust issues inside (but don't rule it out).

I suspect the rust you see on the BB shell is from how it was stored, or maybe started under the paint form the faced edge, which is fairly common. So go ahead and use some rust proofing inside, clean up and retouch the outside, and you should be good to go, with no need for buyers remorse.

oddjob2

Why call the seller? What obligation does the seller have to your satisfaction? I assume you had the time to inspect the merchandise prior to forking over the cash? Unless there is attempt to hide defects or deceive you, it's an as-is sale.

I drove to Long Island, 90 miles RT and $27 in tolls, to pick up a revered "Miata" touring bike yesterday. It had a nutted chrome rim on the front and the flipper was dinking around with attaching the saddle. When I suggested he pull the seat post, guess what? He found the matching rim, but he got a $50 haircut for the stuck seat post. I'm sure after the sale, I would have never gotten a price adjustment.

+1 to @3alarmer's assessment and recomendations.

cb400bill

Don't bother contacting the seller. You had the opportunity to evaluate the bike before you bought it.

Henry III

It's CL...not Target. Id be more worried about it being hot then rust issues on a two hundred dollars for a Waterford.

daf1009

$200 for that Waterford? IMHO...you got a steal! ABSOLUTE worst case, frame cannot be saved (which, as others have pointed out is NOT going to happen)...you part the bike out...and make a good bit of money! Of course, I am like others...I think it is in not too bad shape...looks pretty good and can, relatively, easily be put into working order!

big chainring 

For the BB, I think a spray of WD-40, wipe with a rag and touch up with some Testors blue.

Major score. Enjoy the bike.

T-Mar

The visible rust is on the BB shell and fittings. These are pretty thick and reliability should not be a concern. I'd just clean it up and touch it up. I don't mean to be a spoiler but I do see see some apparent waviness in the tubes behind the lugs. It could just be a weird reflection but warrants a closer inspection.

eastbay71

You really did score a great find, $200 for a waterford and it's a 753 frame too! If you really feel the frame needs to be repaired Waterford is still in business and will perform repairs on their old frames. 753 frames are rare and it might be worth it to invest in a repair and repaint.

vintagerando

I was thinking out-loud.....i would not actually go back on a purchase. But, I took the headset off and clumps of rust poured out. This is significant and unseen damage. I just wonder if the Seller know more than he was saying: ie, where and under what condition was it stored; was is left out side on a regular basis. Whatever, I own it.
The purpose of the original post was to figure out what I can do to slow the rusting and what I should be concerned with checking to get this up and running. Thanks.

mstateglfr 

Yeah, the rust in the frame is lame, but it comes with not fully checking a bike before purchase. I am not criticizing you, I have done the same thing a dozen+ times. Heck, I have an 80s Bianchi torn down to the frame on my stand right now that has flakes of rust sitting in the open BB shell. I didnt check the bike very well before buying it and I bought it in a poorly lit parking lot, so I couldnt have checked well even if I had wanted.

As others have said- what you have can be more than saved- it can be turned into an awesome bike. Its amazing what some WD40 and scrubbing with a thin plastic wire brush does for the inside of tubes. An OA bath or sitting in Evaporust and some brushing/towel wiping should get rid of that bottom bracket rust. The paint will flake off more, just take it back to the point where the paint is solid with the metal and make sure the bare metal is rust free. Take the fork to a hobby shop and buy some Testor's blue paint that matches. Cover up the bare part of the shell, let it dry for a couple days, and see how it looks. I may not have high enough standards, but its the underside of a bottom bracket- nobody will ever see it. If the color match is 95%, itll look perfect from 3' away, especially considering the underside of the BB is shadowed.

The cable guide rust can be removed with an Evaporust soaked paper towel. Just soak it and stuff the inside and outside of the guide. layer it atop the guide and wrap it with some Saran. Leave it for a couple hours. You should be able to then rub away any of the rust while drying the cable guide. I have also found that a qtip fits well inside most cable guides and can help retain the liquid inside the guide. qtips are also good for cleaning out the inside of the guide when you are done. The slightest touchup paint on the corners of that should be great.



You bought a Waterford with Ultegra brifters, Ultegra crank, and tricolor hub laced wheels for $200. Oh, and a couple stems were thrown in.
Take your time cleaning the inside and outside, build it, and know that you got a great deal.

exmechanic89

Seems like a great deal to me too, unless some catastrophic frame damage is found. I'd disassemble it, clean everything up, re-lube, reassemble and ride it happily.

cbutler

You should have remorse for clamping the delicate TT of your LUSH Waterford in your workstand!!

I feel nothing but envy. Blue 753 envy with a CF fork!!

Call the seller back. Be nice. Really, Really, nice and see if he still has the original matching fork. Seller may also have other parts. Another awesome score may await you.

Congrats & please post more pics.

wrk101

1. To me, this was a pretty good deal.

2. On bad deals (I have made many, made my last one a week ago), I just suck it up. At that point, my focus is to recoup as much as I can out of the bike, the closer to break even the better, sometimes I get close, sometimes I don't. I typically try to recoup $$ through the parts. One recent mistake, everything went to the coop other than the crankset and seat post. Sold the crankset for more than what I paid for the bike, so at that point it moved from the bad deal column to an OK deal.

3. I try to learn from every bad deal, what would I do different next time? Often I get enamored with the brand and model and overlook clear flaws ("yeah it's rusty but it's a 1970s Paramount!") I never look for a refund, even one the ones where I believe the seller knew... It's one advantage of paying a "to be flipped" price. This means I am paying what I think is $150 to $200 under what I can get for the bike once I refurbish it. So a lot of times I go from making a profit to breaking even. Of course, this assumes my time is free. No way I cover my time on bad deals.

vintagerando

I let my fear get the better of me in that original post. I took your advice, cbutler, I contacted the Seller and told him I am very excited about resurrecting this bike. He is a good dude. The follow up email resulted in an agreement for some additional parts. If it works out....it will help me complete this bike. So, things are looking good for this project.

exmechanic89

Not me, I've never made a bad deal. There is not at this very minute sitting in my garage a bike that's been there for the last 6 months that annoys me every time I glance at it..

RoadGuy

I don't think restoring that frame is a job for most home mechanics. Not unless you have sand blasting equipment, and can paint.

There are obvious rust bubbles coming up close to the lugs on the head tube. Which to me would signal the need for stripping, inspection, and a complete rustproof and paint job.

Consider stripping the bike and keeping the parts while selling the frame As-Is, or sending the frame out for restoration to Waterford.

italianbiker

I bought a bike with the same BB issues. If I remembered correctly, I used a wire wheel and cleaned off all of the rust. Then I primed and painted it. It was not an issue. You may want to try steel wool with WD 40, or there is a rust be gone type spray. Someone bought it at Home Depot.

dailycommute

Looks minor to me but I am pretty easy to please if it fits and is a nice bike. Similar bb rust on a team fuji that bronze wooled off and then clear coated with nail polish, that was 4 years ago and 1000s of miles later and still looks fine. I would say for a keeper/possible resell a good deal.

Wilfred Laurier

Glad OP has calmed down. The rust is seriously nothing to worry about... even loose rust inside the frame is common and almost never a problem. Lightweight steel frames will die from misadventure fifty years before rust causes any a real problems.

exmechanic89

I feel the same way. I mean you can strip and repaint and do all that stuff, but afterward you'll have spent a lot of money on something you'll never see the money out of. Fine if you want to go that route, but certainly not necessary. All three of my rides have some rust, dings and plenty of scratches, yet I'm still confident they will go for many thousands of miles more. Stripping and repainting them would be a ton of work and dollars spent, and in the end they wouldnt be worth any more than they are now. Bikes are made to be ridden, especially nice bikes like the OPs. I say clean it up and ride it.

himespau 

I'm always a bit nervous about bikes that don't come with their original fork (and clamping fancy thin tubing), but what's done is done. OAA treat it if you have access, clean off the rust and frame saver it if you don't. You could try to find a close match at a hobby store or just go to your local pharmacy/big box store and look for something in the nail polish aisle that matches. Cover the exposed metal, wax, rebuild, and ride.

SJX426 

You may want to make up your own mind based on the experience of others. I try to let the experienced lead me into the decision but recognize it is mine after the fact.

I bought a bike that had rust that looked like this:
[IMG]P1010027, on Flickr[/IMG]

I decided that it needed to be stripped and found this:
[IMG]P1010140, on Flickr[/IMG]

With some work, it looks more like this now. I need to finish it.
[IMG]P1010141, on Flickr[/IMG]

When I get done, it will be worth more but probably not a profitable adventure. The key for me is that I don't plan on selling it but using it as much as possible.

vintagerando

I took the frame to my LBS. I asked them to take out the BB and get the frozen bolts out that hold the bottle cage. I went back tonight to get the frame. The mechanic said "bad news this frame is rusted ands unsafe to ride.....oh and by the way, when I was drilling out the bolt, the drill went through the opposite side of the down tube". Shot. Dollars Lost: $200