gioscinelli 

Hello,

I recently purchased a 1964 or 1966 Chrome Schwinn Paramount with Pro Nervex lugs. The serial number on the left rear dropout shows "H640" without the quotes. Unfortunately the frame is a little large, so I'm selling the Paramount frame and fork on Ebay. My questions are year, model, 531 tubing and made by the ladies at the Chicago Schwinn plant? My other question is value. The parts I'm keeping for future builds. One exception is the Campagnolo Nuovo Record brake calipers without a stamped name on the caliper arms, which would indicate their 1968, the first year introduced, are they of any value for a collector?






Number on Bottom Bracket Shell "58c64c0222f






I was amazed when first seeing the chromed Paramount at the seller house, no dings, no dents, no scuffs, and no rust. I was able to straddle the bike with the tires flat, after putting air in the tires, the close tolerance would be painful on a quick dismount.

Thank you, Mike (gioscinelli)

Kactus

The serial # indicates the bike was the 40th Paramount made in August 1966. It's probably a P-13 "Deluxe Road Racer". It would be Reynolds 531 tubing. The frame alone I would estimate at $800 +/- on eBay. The early Campy Record brakes are pretty desirable.

bikemig 

That would be a fun bike to own.

Scooper

Kactus nailed it.

Here's the 1966 P13 dealer catalog page.

repechage

Nice machine.
There was a '68 chrome example for sale on CL locally about a year ago, languished at $2k, but my guess eventually sold, much smaller frame, the "no name" brakes that I think we're original as no top tube cable stops.

I think this era of Paramount presents the the true Schwinn thinking of design best.
Note the Schwinn fender stay fastener in the bottom bracket weep hole, I think that is a dealer level modification.

gioscinelli 

The information offered by everyone will be helpful when listing the frame on Ebay. Accuracy is very important when selling anything on Ebay, which I often look for when buying, because it's an intangible item. Thank you, Mike

merziac

Are the brakes of any value, really?

exxongraftek

The calipers are. The catalog scan in this chain shows the "Weinmann Vanquer" (sic) which would have been their centerpull brake calipers.
Someone preferred Campagnolo sidepull calipers and replaced them - a bit of an odd choice unless they road-rashed the Campy levers.
Those calipers are among the rarest of Campy bits, as desirable or more so than the legendary Delta calipers.
Try getting "sold" listing comps off the pirate Bay for these - they are so rare you will have little/no luck.
Last set I saw sell went for multiple Franklins, can't recall how many...

bikemig 

I need to resist thinking about offering to buy this bike,

merziac

It was almost $1200 on the bay, most here know what they are worth, which was my point.

repechage

Varies, I would expect $800 for the no name calipers and $1,000-1,200 if they were complete with levers in great shape.
I have ONE set, bought as part of a bike.
Way way back I only saw one pair, a co-worker traded a track wheel set for them... He knew they were rare back then too.
Another rare set are the first generation short reach calipers.

repechage

This bike caught my interest too. But I really do not need any more.
Next purchase will be a 52-53 cm bike for my son, he is growing, the 50 cm is nearing its limit.

gioscinelli 

I just sold the brakes on eBay for $150!

merziac

Ok, well somebody got a pretty good deal.

repechage

A little early for April 1st.

Scooper

The unmarked side-pull caliper brakes made their debut on page 28 of the Campagnolo catalog No. 16 from 1968, so I believe substituting them for the Weinmann Vainqueur center-pulls was an option from Schwinn that year, but was probably too late to make the 1968 Schwinn dealer catalog which was usually put together in the fall of the previous year.

For $150, somebody stole them.

Metacortex

They sold 10 minutes after being listed: Vintage 1968 Campagnolo 1st Gen Nuovo Record Brake Calipers L?Eroica | eBay

I wonder how high they would have gone without the BIN?

repechage

That is quite a bit of money to leave on the table. A lesser soul would advise the buyer, "item lost and undeliverable, here is your refund, sorry about that, I will let you know if it turns up"

Drillium Dude 

My thought exactly. Couldn't believe it when I saw Metacortex's post. And in the OP the question was asked...and answered in post #2 . Strange. @gioscinelli, were you in a huge hurry to get them listed for whatever reason? You did make a note about doing research before listing, but it doesn't seem like you gave us much time to give you the low-down on these rare versions of Campy's calipers.

I admit, I'd have snapped them up had I seen them, but of course I didn't because I'm not really in the buying market these days. Maybe I should start perusing Ebay again in the hopes of flipping!

Edit: dayum, the rear even had a Campy drop-bolt!

DD

satbuilder 

Ouch.

gioscinelli 

I took the lowest to the highest final auction bid and listed as shown and sold.

Here's an completed auction on a nice set of 1st generation calipers that closed at $115 with lettering. Vapor value is waiting for someone interested and as the national dept increased the value of the dollar decreases coupled with inflation. Value is in the eye's of the buyer.

Campagnolo 1st Generation Super Record Brake Calipers Brakes Vintage Campy | eBay

Drillium Dude 

Yes, but the entire point of the rarity is that yours didn't have lettering - thus they're the earliest versions and worth serious money. When it comes to stuff as rare as this, inflation has nothing to do with it. The value will pretty much continue to go up - they'll always be super-rare.

As noted above - almost impossible even to find a completed/sold listing. I'm sorry - I hope I'm not coming across beating you up, but there were a number of well-meaning, detailed responses to your query. I'm sure I'm not the only one surprised at what happened.

Please promise you'll take your time listing that beautiful frame - you deserve top-dollar for that beauty and I hope you get it

DD

gioscinelli 

Here's the most recent completed auction on a 1966 Schwinn Paramount Pista with a top tube damaged! Went for $927.66 with 33 bids!

1966 Schwinn Paramount Track Bike with Damaged Down Tube | eBay

Pretty hard to believe, but only goes to show "value is in the eye's of the buyer"

Mike

Drillium Dude 

Roger that

DD

repechage

I do not think it is a good comparison of a chrome Paramount track frame to road frame. Probably very little cross shopping. Track bikes are rare, chrome even more so, but the pool of buyers is small.
The chrome road frame is of a decent size. Appears to be in good shape, only big deficit is the lack of downtube graphics. This is a frame that needs a well timed auction. Personally, my view is now is not the time, the month of May would be. Consider that tax day is looming. Those with significant disposable income often are paying quarterly, a big check will be written soon. A ten day auction with a strategic start to end say on Sunday night... That would be my plan.