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Thread: Miyata 1000

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    Miyata 1000

    I would like to know how much my bicycle is worth. It is a 1988 Miyata 1000. Ridden about 5 times and lived in storage since 1990. All original as purchased from the store: no new/reburbished/replacement parts. Small tear in foam on one handle bar ... and some dust build up. It is a men's frame, 54cm, black. Wheel size 700c.
    Here is some more info from the 1988 Miyata catalog
    > an image
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img168.jpg
    > specs
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_whtVpXkKwl...0-h/img169.jpg
    Thank you.

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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Actual pictures are very helpful but......

    I'll jump in and say $500 plus.....
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    Agree. 500 bucks or possibly more to the right buyer. Miyata 1000's got really popular after the late Sheldon Brown touted them as the best production touring bike of its time.

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    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
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    Going rates here (and I am a cheap bas%^&$) are $250-$600 depending on the condition. I have been looking for one in a 58cm or bigger.

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    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    I would like something like that, but this one is in too good of shape.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    I would like something like that, but this one is in too good of shape.
    The better shape a bike is the better the buy!!


    Think we can get this Miyata 1000 thread to blow up like the last one? That was almost epic.....
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    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    +1 You aren't from Portland, OR by chance??

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    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Jim.
    I just want a frame.
    I have a '87 Miyata Triton, in 57cm, factory called it a 23", really 22 1/2" with 27" wheels. The frame is great, but just a tad too tall for me.
    This bike size would be good, I'm just on a tighter budget. Maybe I can trade frames with someone.
    Last edited by David Newton; 06-23-09 at 05:40 PM.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    Jim.
    I just want a frame.
    I have a '87 Miyata Triton, in 57cm, factory called it a 23", really 22 1/2" with 27" wheels. The frame is great, but just a tad too tall for me.
    This bike size would be good, I'm just on a tighter budget. Maybe I can trade frames with someone.
    Stay on the lookout...when you least expect it bikes/frames show up.
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    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    Jim.
    I just want a frame.
    I have a '87 Miyata Triton, in 57cm, factory called it a 23", really 22 1/2" with 27" wheels. The frame is great, but just a tad too tall for me.
    This bike size would be good, I'm just on a tighter budget. Maybe I can trade frames with someone.
    Miyata frames tend to run on the small size. I have a 23 inch myself, it measures 22 inches center to center.

    Your best bet is to just find a 21 inch bike that fits you well, one that measures a true 21 inch center to center. If you like your components better, just to a swap between the two bikes. Almost all the vintage bikes I find are either 21 inch or 23 inch size. So you should be able to find one pretty quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    Actual pictures are very helpful but......

    I'll jump in and say $500 plus.....
    There are groups of cyclists that ride by my home on the weekend. One stopped when he saw the bike and offered to pay $200.00 on the spot. He said that was the best offer I was going to receive. I said -- it is already sold to me, but thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
    +1 You aren't from Portland, OR by chance??
    I'm near Toronto, Ontario. Canada.

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    Miyata 1000

    Near Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

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    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Yeah, 200.00 is really low. Post up some pictures of the actual bike to get a better estimate.
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    Miyata 1000

    As requested, here are some pictures.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    It's a great bike worth far more than $200, or even 2X $200.

    Michael
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-28-09 at 09:09 AM.
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    Looks like $600+ to me. Nice bike, highly sought after.

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    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Looks very similar to my 86-87 Specialized Expedition. I believe both frames are Ishiwata 022. The Exp. came with Suntour Montech derails, but according to an article by S. Brown, the Suntour rear D had a bad habit of major failure and I've noticed that many 80's bikes with Suntour Ds often had the rear D upgraded. Saw the pic of the Shimano Deore, don't know if that maybe a similar upgrade for those who demand originality. I contacted a guy in the CHicago area who was asking a firm $800 for his 84 Expedition and was receiving serious inquiries. I believe it was Sheldon Brown who wrote that the top 3 off-the-shelf touring bikes of all times were the Trek 520, the Expedition, and the Miyata 1000. I don't know about the market inwhich you live, but in the major cities along the West Coast I wouldn't be suprised for it to sell between $600-800.

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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    Looks very similar to my 86-87 Specialized Expedition. I believe both frames are Ishiwata 022. The Exp. came with Suntour Montech derails, but according to an article by S. Brown, the Suntour rear D had a bad habit of major failure and I've noticed that many 80's bikes with Suntour Ds often had the rear D upgraded. Saw the pic of the Shimano Deore, don't know if that maybe a similar upgrade for those who demand originality. I contacted a guy in the CHicago area who was asking a firm $800 for his 84 Expedition and was receiving serious inquiries. I believe it was Sheldon Brown who wrote that the top 3 off-the-shelf touring bikes of all times were the Trek 520, the Expedition, and the Miyata 1000. I don't know about the market inwhich you live, but in the major cities along the West Coast I wouldn't be suprised for it to sell between $600-800.
    Not even close. Miyata uses their own proprietary triple butted chromoly tubing which is, without a doubt, one of the finest tubes ever produced.

    The 1000 model has always been the finest touring bike ever made and its better than most custom made rigs for a variety of reasons. Custom rigs dont offer any features that Miyata didnt.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member afilado's Avatar
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    "Not even close"? Please explain. And possibly more than what's readily available in the literature.

    I'm not mounting a challenge to your statement but I am seriously interested in details of your experience. You seem to know well the Miyata 1000 vs other production touring bikes.

    I think the Fuji Touring Series from the mid 80s is top tier, especially the Touring Series IV & V. Care to make a comparative statement about the Fujis?

    Full disclosure: I own a quad butted Series V, and I can only imagine that Sheldon didn't know the full spectrum of touring bikes when he made his declaration regarding the "best". I don't see any shortcomings in the Fuji when compared to ANY other bike of its ilk, including the 1000, triple butted tubing notwithstanding.

    I do challenge the standing idea that the 1000 stands head and shoulders above ALL others.

    Looking forward to the schooling. ;-)

    Cheers,

    Julian



    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    Not even close. Miyata uses their own proprietary triple butted chromoly tubing which is, without a doubt, one of the finest tubes ever produced.

    The 1000 model has always been the finest touring bike ever made and its better than most custom made rigs for a variety of reasons. Custom rigs dont offer any features that Miyata didnt.

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    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaMen View Post
    There are groups of cyclists that ride by my home on the weekend. One stopped when he saw the bike and offered to pay $200.00 on the spot. He said that was the best offer I was going to receive. I said -- it is already sold to me, but thanks.
    $200 would be taking advantage of you.

    In this market, now that I've seen pics, I'm thinking $700 +/- $50.
    Tourers are big here; folks go to the Outer Banks on our nice roads (no snow). The ascending pecking order here is:

    4) Trek 520, which folks maintain at considerable expense, and won't let go of. $250-$400 even in rough shape.
    3) Miyata Two Ten, etc touring models, below the 1000. $300-$400 but need to be a little cleaner.
    2) Specialized Expedition. Components matter, but $350 starts for a rough one, up to $700 clean with Deore, which is popular.
    1) The Miyata 1000. Cult following, they start at $500 and will easily go to $800 set up right, more with Suntour bar end shifters.

    Other than the above, it's Rivendell or Surly depending on your bank account or need to be seen.

    I've not seen Julian's Fuji around here. I've not really seen any steel Fuji's here, of any kind, other than newer Finests or Team Carbons, etc. Julian knows his Fuji bikes, and his builds are immaculate, so if he says the Fuji is up there, I'd follow that.
    Last edited by RobbieTunes; 06-28-09 at 07:24 PM.
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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afilado View Post
    "Not even close"? Please explain. And possibly more than what's readily available in the literature.

    I'm not mounting a challenge to your statement but I am seriously interested in details of your experience. You seem to know well the Miyata 1000 vs other production touring bikes.

    I think the Fuji Touring Series from the mid 80s is top tier, especially the Touring Series IV & V. Care to make a comparative statement about the Fujis?

    Full disclosure: I own a quad butted Series V, and I can only imagine that Sheldon didn't know the full spectrum of touring bikes when he made his declaration regarding the "best". I don't see any shortcomings in the Fuji when compared to ANY other bike of its ilk, including the 1000, triple butted tubing notwithstanding.

    I do challenge the standing idea that the 1000 stands head and shoulders above ALL others.

    Looking forward to the schooling. ;-)

    Cheers,

    Julian

    In general tubesets are made in 1 length with the length of the thinner middle section optimized for ~23" frames (could be 21") which happen to be the most popular size frames. If a small frame is built the butts are cut off, you end up with little short butted ends and mostly the thinner middle section for the length of the tube. The opposite holds true for larger frames, the butted section to thinner section ratio is off because as mentioned earlier the ration is optimized for middle sized frames.

    Miyata designed and manufactured their own frame tubes. Each frame size received its own specific tube, a 50cm didnt didnt get a cut down 58 tube and a 60 didnt get 58 tubes with long butted ends. Miyata designed the butt lengths for each frame size and they cut the splines to a specific length for each frame size to optimize the ride ride quality and characteristics of each frame size. No other company did this. Different frame sizes get different geometry so it only makes sense that they get different tubes. Is Ishiwata 022 good tubing? Yes, but it was available in 1 specification optimized for 1 frame size.

    A Splined Trible Butted tube for a 714 is different than a Splined Triple Butted tube for a 914 which is different than a Splined Triple Butted tube for a 1000.

    Miyata also finished their bikes better than everyone else. They used a 7 stage process that included washing in zinc phosphate for rust prevention and 6 layers of primer and paint including a clear coat.

    The quality of Miyatas lug work and brazing is better than most custom European builders!!!

    Are Trek 520's and Expeditions good bikes? Sure they are, but the Miyata 1000 is like a Lexus, Mercedes and BMW all rolled into 1.

    Jim
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    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    I've been schooled. Good stuff though. Just to clarify, I looked up Sheldon Brown's quote and it is less definitive then I originally remembered. "The mid-80's Miyata 1000 was possibly the finest off-the-shelf bike available at the time."-S.B.

  24. #24
    Senior Member afilado's Avatar
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    Appreciations.

    Impressive stats and knowledge. I still don't see how this is evidence for the claim that the 1000 is the "best" or that another marque's design philosophy for their equivalent model of bike is necessarily inferior to the 1000.

    That's the Miyata side of things. What's the other side of the story. I don't know. I'm hoping you do.

    That's a pretty heady statement about the Miyata factory bikes lug work and brazing being better than "most" European custom builders. How is a claim like that meaningful in practical terms in making the case for the 1000?

    Panasonic, Nishiki(Kawamura), Fuji and others made great counterparts to the 1000. Did they all have to knowingly content themselves with fighting it out for an also ran position? Was their technology "in general" inferior? Was there no "Lexus, Mercedes and BMW" quality left over for anyone else?

    How does the best of the rest compare with the 1000?

    I guess I'm just a contrarian in this matter of the 1000 being "best" and others "not even close". No doubt the 1000 is very fine. It deserves a lofty position.

    Is it the best? Not just because Sheldon says so, when accurately quoted. And not, I would venture, to the folks who own other, different, well-chosen bikes of the time.

    Best,

    J



    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    In general tubesets are made in 1 length with the length of the thinner middle section optimized for ~23" frames (could be 21") which happen to be the most popular size frames. If a small frame is built the butts are cut off, you end up with little short butted ends and mostly the thinner middle section for the length of the tube. The opposite holds true for larger frames, the butted section to thinner section ratio is off because as mentioned earlier the ration is optimized for middle sized frames.

    Miyata designed and manufactured their own frame tubes. Each frame size received its own specific tube, a 50cm didnt didnt get a cut down 58 tube and a 60 didnt get 58 tubes with long butted ends. Miyata designed the butt lengths for each frame size and they cut the splines to a specific length for each frame size to optimize the ride ride quality and characteristics of each frame size. No other company did this. Different frame sizes get different geometry so it only makes sense that they get different tubes. Is Ishiwata 022 good tubing? Yes, but it was available in 1 specification optimized for 1 frame size.

    A Splined Trible Butted tube for a 714 is different than a Splined Triple Butted tube for a 914 which is different than a Splined Triple Butted tube for a 1000.

    Miyata also finished their bikes better than everyone else. They used a 7 stage process that included washing in zinc phosphate for rust prevention and 6 layers of primer and paint including a clear coat.

    The quality of Miyatas lug work and brazing is better than most custom European builders!!!

    Are Trek 520's and Expeditions good bikes? Sure they are, but the Miyata 1000 is like a Lexus, Mercedes and BMW all rolled into 1.

    Jim
    Last edited by afilado; 06-28-09 at 11:21 PM.

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    I owned a Univega Specialissima back in the day. It was my understanding at the time -- based on close study of the bikes when I was shopping -- and I have read here at BF that the Univega Specialissima is the same frame as the Miyata 1000.

    I also believe that the Univega Gran Turismo is the same frame as a lesser Miyata (the 610?).

    This has been discussed on prior BF Univega/Miyata threads...

    For anyone shopping, the Univegas are typically available for less money than the Miyata.

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