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Thread: 853 CrossCheck

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    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    853 CrossCheck

    I have a Surly CrossCheck that I would like to comfirm some info on, as I am not the original owner. I purchased off of ebay about 5 years ago and I emailed Surly with some questions at that time and received some generic/form letter response. I intend to keep this bike as I do enjoy riding it.

    It is a dark blue color with a 1" threaded headset and a Reynolds 853 decal on the seat tube. From what I have gathered thus far.....I believe this is a '99 and the only year these were built with 853 and a 1" HS. Hopefully someone here can confirm that.

    Apologies if I am inquiring in the wrong section, but if my assumtions are correct, even at 10 years old,then I believe it to be a classic in it's own rite.

  2. #2
    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    I find most of my info on newer bikes on bikepedia. Unfortunately, some of its information is spotty. It does list a Surly Cross Check, but not a 1999 model (the closest it got was 2001, and it does not have a 853 frame). I would contact the closest dealer in your area, perhaps they have older catalogs or good memories.

    There is a thread on this forum a couple of years back. Someone with a 1999 Crosscheck in blue reported that it had a Reynolds 631 frame with a 1 inch threaded HS.
    Last edited by wrk101; 11-24-09 at 09:04 PM.

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    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    Apologies..............it is 631 .........thanks for the reference...and yes, this is the same frame........ http://www.flickr.com/photos/20754448@N03/2021352351/

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    Quote Originally Posted by r0ckh0und View Post
    Apologies..............it is 631 .........thanks for the reference...and yes, this is the same frame........ http://www.flickr.com/photos/20754448@N03/2021352351/
    Thought so... I'd spotted this post some time ago. Search some too. I remember them changing from 631 to 4130 early 2000s. 631's good stuff, 4130 can be any chromoly, not bad I'm sure in the case of Surly but if I had a choice, I would choose 631. Your bike has an edge. 520 qualifies as chromoly and 631's a step above. Read Bob Jackson sites, there are two; an old one called "home" and the store one.
    They've a good overview of Reynolds, more than an overview and it's in plain terms.

  5. #5
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    4130 is an American Iron and Steel institute specification for a steel alloy, 631 is a finished product. It's really impossible to compare them without knowing a lot more about the 4130 tubing beyond the fact that the material used conforms to the AISI specification. The 4130 could be drawn in some super high-tech way, heat treated in some super high-tech way, etc. It's just hard to know since the term "4130" could apply to a block of steel or a solid rod just as easily as a heat-treated, thin-walled, triple-butted, high-end bicycle frame tube. That being said, it's probably fairly nice tubing that Surly is using.
    Last edited by GV27; 11-24-09 at 10:02 PM.

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    sultan of schwinn EjustE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old and new View Post
    Thought so... I'd spotted this post some time ago. Search some too. I remember them changing from 631 to 4130 early 2000s. 631's good stuff, 4130 can be any chromoly, not bad I'm sure in the case of Surly but if I had a choice, I would choose 631. Your bike has an edge. 520 qualifies as chromoly and 631's a step above. Read Bob Jackson sites, there are two; an old one called "home" and the store one.
    They've a good overview of Reynolds, more than an overview and it's in plain terms.
    +1

    631 practically is 531 with the capability to be TIG-welded. Same deal with 853 and 753 (kind of)
    -E

    still stuck in the '80s; '70s were good as well, but i severely dislike tubulars.
    I tri...

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    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old and new View Post
    Thought so... I'd spotted this post some time ago. Search some too. I remember them changing from 631 to 4130 early 2000s. 631's good stuff, 4130 can be any chromoly, not bad I'm sure in the case of Surly but if I had a choice, I would choose 631. Your bike has an edge. 520 qualifies as chromoly and 631's a step above. Read Bob Jackson sites, there are two; an old one called "home" and the store one.
    They've a good overview of Reynolds, more than an overview and it's in plain terms.
    725 is Chromoly too, and a step above 631. It's just tough to say without knowing more. What IS known is that 631 is damn good stuff!

  8. #8
    sultan of schwinn EjustE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
    725 is Chromoly too, and a step above 631. It's just tough to say without knowing more. What IS known is that 631 is damn good stuff!
    close but no cigar. 725 is the evolution of 525 and 631 is the evolution of 531. 531 was a better tubing than 525 and 631 is better than 725. 631 shares a lot of production technology with 853. 725 is mainly used as a fill in or secondary (stays) material these days. If you don't believe me, here is this tidbit from Bob Jackson and Co: http://www.worldclasscycles.com/JACKSON-HOME.htm
    -E

    still stuck in the '80s; '70s were good as well, but i severely dislike tubulars.
    I tri...

  9. #9
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Close but no cigar! LOL

    Here's exactly what Bob Jackson says: "Reynolds 725 Chrome moly tubing can be used to build a complete frame or can be used as seat and chainstays to produce either 631 or 853 frames" and then farther down on that page there is a hierarchy of frames, with 631/525 being the bottom of the range, then 631/725, then pure 725, the 853 at the top of the range. If you're going to throw a link at somebody with a big dose of sarcasm, at least read the link! LOL

    725 is to 525 what 853 is to 631.

    If you don't believe me, give the folks at Mercian a call - they're building me an all-725 frame right now. It's the owner's personal favorite tubing. A bit lighter but more rugged and also a bit more costly than 631. It's closer to 753 than to 631 or (especially) 525.

    Another link about it: http://archive.roadbikereview.com/04/0EFBF1AE.php

    and another: http://www.argoscycles.com/reynolds.htm

    And Reynolds own description: http://www.worldclasscycles.com/reynolds_725.htm

    And here - for good measure I'll throw this in since you chose to throw in the sarcasm: Reynolds own strength stats (showing 725 being over 40% stronger than 631) :

    Reynolds 631 - cold drawn
    UTS: 52 - 58 Tsi, 115 - 130 Ksi,
    800 - 900 MPa

    Reynolds 725 - heat treated
    UTS: 70 - 83 Tsi, 157 - 186 Ksi,
    1080 - 1280 MPa

    But yeah, if weaker is better I suppose you're right - 631 is WAY better than 725!
    Last edited by GV27; 11-24-09 at 11:35 PM.

  10. #10
    sultan of schwinn EjustE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV27 View Post

    But yeah, if weaker is better I suppose you're right - 631 is WAY better than 725!
    And if stronger is better, high tensile gas pipe is the best...

    by "better" I mean the biggest strength to wait ratio. This way 631 is "better" than 725.
    -E

    still stuck in the '80s; '70s were good as well, but i severely dislike tubulars.
    I tri...

  11. #11
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Er.......it's steel dude. It all weighs basically the same per cubic inch or whatever unit you want to use. Higher strength means you can use thinner (hence lighter) tubes for the same strength. Man, that's awfully basic. Know what you're talking about before opening your trap.

    I don't think there's any sort of standard "gas-pipe" used in bicycle frames, but IIRC the API specifies pipe made of alloy in the neighborhood of 60 KSi for natural gas, depending on the particular application (e.g. residential pipe doesn't need to be as tough as direct-bury service lines). Note that that's ~half the strength of the material used to make 631, 1/3 that of 725.
    Last edited by GV27; 11-25-09 at 05:57 PM.

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