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  1. #1
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Late 1960s Carlton

    Add popped up on local classified website:

    http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/11290555

    26" Carlton frame; Reynolds 531 Manganese/Moly tubing; Campag Record changers; Zeuss crankset; Titanium cluster (54:13); 1" alloy rims with Campag Wide Flange hubs & brakes; Suspension seat post; for touring or racing: immaculate, one-of-a-kind, hand-built in 70 or 71.
    Serious offers only, please.






    Firstly, I made an offer which was low but respectable as I can only assume, based on the ad, that the seller has some knowledge of what they are selling but is not an expert. The bike looks stock so the claim of a Ti cassette (not sure why the big gear ratio is relevant to that) is suspect.
    The seller responded that my offer was ridiculous as they could get $2000 parted out, I think in the current market $1000 after fees is optimistic and if you payed yourself for the work involved you could easily take $200-300 of that estimate for time dismantling, photographing, listing and shipping so perhaps $700 is not a bad estimate of the value as it sits. However, I think the size hurts is and on a local listing $500 would be a more appropriate asking price. My offer was less than that, but not insultingly so, plus I was testing the waters to see if they countered so I could sus out what they thought they were going to get. I know I was dealing with an a$$ to begin with since the ad asks for offers so the response only put a reassured grin on my fact. Face it I just want the frame to use as my townie fixed gear... but it's even a tad on the large size..

    What say ye? in terms of value? Am I way off?

    edit just noticed it claims campagnolo brakes, but I assumed weinmann based on the lever hoods... that could add a little value... also wanted to say... a carlton is a production bicycle, definitely not one of a kind.
    Last edited by cyclotoine; 02-17-10 at 09:11 AM.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  2. #2
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    $500 is most reasonable, in my opinion. They'd never get $2,000 parted out, and they'll never get $1,000 for the whole thing either. Dare them to try it, they won't (and if they try it, they'll be in for a big fat disappointment).

    Incidentally, I'd very much like to know why they have the rear cable TIE WRAPPED to the chainstay. That's quite suspect.

    -Kurt

  3. #3
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Suspension seat post? Zeuss, as in Dr. Zeuss? Clowns.

  4. #4
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Suspension seat post? Zeuss, as in Dr. Zeuss? Clowns.
    Did you get the seller's name?
    Type it here.
    http://cancantheclown.com/clownnames.html

  5. #5
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    I'm having fun with the seller:

    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888
    Quite interested, can see it this week. Would $500 be acceptable?
    Quote Originally Posted by Seller
    the parts alone are worth three times that
    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888
    With all due respect, I beg to differ:

    Zeus crankset - eBay, sold $15.50:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-170-ZEUS-CR...item1c0fdbda43

    Campagnolo Record rear derailer - eBay, sold $89.90:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-Campagnolo-...item35a6f89de3

    Campagnolo Record front derailer - eBay, sold $24.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMPAGNOLO-Nuovo...item414cbc705c

    High-flange Campagnolo hubs - eBay, sold $69.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-High-Fla...item414cc870a0

    Weinmann NOS rim - eBay, sold $6.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Weinmann-27-X-1-...item335a249074

    Campagnolo Nuovo Record brake calipers - eBay, sold $51.25:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CAMPAGNO...item335a07ff3c

    Weinmann brake levers with Carlton hoods - eBay, unsold $19.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Weinmann-Brake-L...item20af4c339d

    Campagnolo shifter levers - eBay, sold $11.00:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Super...item3ca9f4c7ec

    ATOM freewheel - eBay, sold $9.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-ATOM-FRE...item3ca9d47f84

    GB stem - eBay, sold, $9.99:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-GB-Alloy...item1e5a5764bc

    The total of the parts listed above come to $309.59. I could not locate a suitable bar nor saddle (cannot tell what it is from the photos; definitely not the Brooks Professional it would have come with) on eBay; let us say the bars would run about $20 or so, and the saddle, seeing that it is a generic padded replacement, $15. That would bring it up to $344.59; $350, essentially. $350 of components do not have a $1,500 value, let alone a value of $500.

    If maximum profit is what you wish, I would indeed suggest you part it out - for its parted-out value with always exceed its whole - though I doubt that you'll get anywhere near the $1,500 you are hoping for, or even $500.

    Incidentally, titanium freewheels were not invented until the 1980's.
    -Kurt

  6. #6
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    You're just cruel.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  7. #7
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    You're just cruel.
    "I know...and it makes me feel good all over." -Werner Klemperer as "Colonel Klink"



    -Kurt

  8. #8
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Ah, great entertainment in this thread
    |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
    |......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
    |_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
    "(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)

  9. #9
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
    Ah, great entertainment in this thread
    It'll only be entertainment if the seller replies.

    -Kurt

  10. #10
    If I own it, I ride it CV-6's Avatar
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    To be fair, and not that I am all about fair, the prices you shot him were in more than a few cases lower end. The first sold price I came across for the brakes was $82. Not to mention that your example was a recessed version and we know the nutted versions usually go for a bit more. The Carlton would have used nutted. (he said nutted... ) Campag large flange of the correct date, flat skewers, generally command more. But then the seller specified wide flange hubs. Those are indeed rare.

    Amazes me that someone goes to all the trouble to build a nice bike like that and then uses a tywrap.
    Last edited by CV-6; 02-18-10 at 09:49 AM.
    Lynn Travers

    Photos

    ISO: Lejeune Champion du Monde Ultra Leger Reynolds 753, 53-55cm

  11. #11
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
    To be fair, and not that I am all about fair, the prices you shot him were in more than a few cases lower end.
    Of course - if he wishes to play 3 times over the maximum, I'll dig up the lowest prices possible

    Quote Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
    Amazes me that someone goes to all the trouble to build a nice bike like that and then uses a tywrap.
    I'm suspecting a possible broken braze-on.

    P.S.: Latest reply:

    new info posted in ad
    may take highest reasonable offer



    the parts alone are worth three times that
    Sounds almost like a scammer.

    -Kurt

  12. #12
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Kurt, that is awesome. I love that you used specific examples to back up your claims while I just threw prices off the top of my head (which were way more generous). I'm glad you socked it too them as their replies speak volumes about their character.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

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