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Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

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Old 01-22-11, 12:00 AM   #1
ibrokeitagain
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Looking at New old stock Motobecane, missing parts

I travel a lot for work, so needless to say I get to visit many bike shops all over and can't pass up stopping in one I've not seen before, especially if it looks like it's been around for a while. I stopped by one the other day, I won't say where yet, but the guy has two new in the box Motobecane Grand Jubile bikes, both are unassembled, but both are missing the front and rear derailleurs, shift levers and cranksets. The rest of the bikes are all there. Someone actually tore away the bottom edge of the box and removed the parts. The owner said he bought them like that from a guy that went under a few years ago with the intent of building them up to sell. He's now looking to lighten his inventory a bit I think. We talked for a bit and got to the point where he told me he'd take $300 each, or $500 for the pair, and he thinks their 1974 models. They are both gold in color, with red trim, both have Weinmann convex type 27" wheels, vintage skin wall tires, Normandy hubs, Motobecane badged saddles, GB stems, GB bars, a roll of red bar tape, Atom pedals, and Stronglight bottom brackets.
Both are new and don't even appear to have ever even been unboxed, they just cut the box to get at the parts they removed.

I'd buy both to get the better price, but are they worth it? I have a Grand Record, about the same year, but it was all Campy when new, but that stuff wore out years ago and sits on a shelf now. I hung all Suntour Cyclone on it back in the 80's and never regretted it. I'd do the same to these. I have a few spare sets of Cyclone derailleurs and two new sets of Barcon shifters too from back in the day, so parts to fix them are on hand. The crankset would be the only question. Best of all both bikes are just my size at 25" frame size, if the geometry is the same on the Grand Jubile, then it would be like having basically the same bike I have now brand new again!

I think I paid $400 for the Grand Record used back in the late 70's, it sold for over $600 new I believe, the Grand Jubile was a lesser model by one but still a fairly high dollar bike back then. I'd guess that it sold upwards of $450 or so when new.
How many would cut loose the change for two new bikes if the opportunity arose like this? I have a week to let him know, I'll be back down that way for work then as well.
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Old 01-22-11, 12:40 PM   #2
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Without the dr's/levers and cranks-I don't think the price is right. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-24-11, 02:11 AM   #3
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I was thinking that for two new bikes, they have to be worth at least $200 each?
I probably have a set of new old derailleurs I can use, maybe even a decent crankset.
I was thinking of just doing all Suntour Cyclone, whether it be the old style or the M II stuff.
I know I've got a Sugino Maxy crankset in a box somewhere too. I'm not looking for original, if I was I'd be looking for a set of Jubilee derailleurs. I'm a big fan of bar end shifters so going all Suntour with a set of Barcons would work well.
I've been looking around for a while for a deal on another large frame with no luck, so maybe this is my next bike, or two? I'll be heading there Wed.

If the price is high, what should they sell for? If they were my bikes, sitting like that new in the box, needing nothing but 2 drs, a crankset and chain there's no way I could sell them for $200 simply because I know the chance of ever finding something like this again are slim to none.
When was the last time anyone found a new old stock bike, let alone one that's an upper level model? I'd feel different if these were Schwinn Varsities or Huffys, but these are one of the iconic models from the 70's, at least to me. I remember when these came out, both the red and black models and the gold with red ones, and at that time, $450 or $500 was way out of reach of a kid in school. Then as years went on, the newer bikes just weren't the same and the old ones were gone. The best I could afford back then was a well used Grand Record and a rough old Gitane Interclub. The Gitane is long gone, but I still have the Grand Record.
I do wish they were Grand Records but I doubt if they'd be even close to affordable if they were. He had a few low end Peugeot bikes from the 80's that sold for $500 each, a buddy bought one of them because it reminded him of an old bike he had back then. After all, there's nothing new anywhere close to these in both quality or price, and that holds true even if I were to hunt down all the correct original pieces for both bikes.
I walked into a shop that sells only road bikes last week, there wasn't a single road bike for less than a grand, and they only stocked one. Nothing in a steel frame, nothing that even resembled any bike I ever road.
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Old 01-24-11, 02:29 AM   #4
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How can it be NOS if it's missing parts?
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Old 01-24-11, 06:59 AM   #5
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Guess it depends if they are keepers or flippers. If you hunt down the missing parts (NOS-200 for rdr/65 for levers/65 for fdr/100 and up for cranks and peds-ballpark) You're already into them for nore than they are worth. Those parts prob got ebayed-worth more parted out. Even if you just picked suntour stuff-it would have to be new, not cheap either.
Buy em-part out-frame-stem-bars-bb-hs/you get the drift. You asked if worth it. Wait for someone who agrees. Worth it to you obviously-go for it.
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Old 01-30-11, 02:36 AM   #6
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How can it be NOS if it's missing parts?
Easy, someone opened the box with a box cutter, removed the derailleurs, cranks, and shifters.

I went back there the other day, he said he'd do one for $225, no less, or $150 and he keeps the wheelset.
To me, without the wheelset, I'd be looking at more than the extra $75 he wants with the wheels.
I'd spend nearly that in just spokes, let alone labor to build a new set of wheels, if I could find those rims.

I'd go with Suntour Cyclone derailleurs, I already have at least one new set here, plus a set of bar end shifters and cable clamps, so that won't cost me anything, but how about the crankset? Can I use the French bottom bracket and axle with any square type crankset? The cups say Stronglight on them, as does the headset.
I have a few older Stronglight cranks, but they're not #49 cranks like he said were on these, I think their #93, cranks off an old Peugeot. If not finding a proper crankset might be an issue. I do have a later Motobecane scripted Japanese crankset, but would it work with the Stronglight BB?
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Old 01-31-11, 03:45 AM   #7
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Jis may sit too far inboard on an iso spindle. Nail down the specs with the seller. Peek at the dr hanger-may have to modify if stop is at the 4 o'clock position. I'm no expert-but I don't know of another dr that uses that stop position except the jubilee... Buy both-part out one ($)to build the other.
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Old 02-01-11, 07:58 PM   #8
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Jis may sit too far inboard on an iso spindle. Nail down the specs with the seller. Peek at the dr hanger-may have to modify if stop is at the 4 o'clock position. I'm no expert-but I don't know of another dr that uses that stop position except the jubilee... Buy both-part out one ($)to build the other.
Are you saying that the Suntour Cyclone GT won't work on the Campagnolo rear dropouts?
It seems to thread on and fit ok, but I haven't tried running the chain since I don't yet have a crankset.
The flats on the crank axle look longer and flatter, or less tapered than those on a Japanese crank axle.
I have a new old stock pair of Motobecane scripted 165mm cranks and it's matching BB, but it's cups aren't French threaded. I suppose I could use the original cups and the SR crank axle from the newer crankset?

The seller has no clue, or don't recall what fits what. By the time I got back to him he had sold one of them already.
I bought the second bike, with it's wheels, and the other set of wheels from the second bike for $300. I now have in front of me a complete early Motobecane Grand Jubile minus both derailleurs, chain and crankset. The bottom bracket is here, it's marked Stronglight, as is the headset. I even have the bar tape, seat, seat post, and all small parts still wrapped up in the box. The tires even look serviceable.

What is the difference between the Huret derailleur and the Suntour derailleur mount? Apparently they both use the same threads?
I do know I've removed old Schwinn/Huret derailleurs and replaced them with lighter or more modern ones on Schwinn Varsity bikes with no problems.

What length cranks would have come on this bike? It's a 25" frame. I am used to running 170mm cranks, but will I really even notice the difference if I use the 165mm SR made Moto cranks?
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Old 02-02-11, 03:20 AM   #9
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Diff is the position of the stop on the hanger. 4 o'clock position for the HJ-7 oclock position for just about all others. Need pics of the hanger-not all GJ came with the huret jubile dr. Good thing if it dosen't need a jubile (hard to find). The experts will come along if you post pics. Congrats on your purchase.
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Old 02-02-11, 07:13 PM   #10
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PS-I'd use the 93 crank. Pull and regrease the headset and bb-sitting around in a box or garage-the grease is probably solidified. Pics, pics,pics.
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Old 02-03-11, 09:03 PM   #11
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I don't have a camera to take pics with, not yet anyway.
Where there campy dropouts made for French only derailleurs?
How many Grand Jubile bikes came through with Campy dropouts?
I keep getting told locally that they didn't make Motorbecane bikes before 1974?
The hubs on this bike are Normandy with the numbers 03 73 in the front and 04 73 in the rear.
I did find it odd that the front dropouts were Huret and the rear was Campy but the boxes were still sealed, there was no way you could remove the bike and make a fork swap without busting open the boxes. The bike with no wheels was opened by the guy that sold them to me, and both bikes are identical.
Both bikes were packed the same, both boxes were Motobecane with all French writing, there was no English at all on the boxes or the hang tags. They were boxed in larger than normal boxes, the front wheels were on, the bars and stem off and hanging over the cardboard padded top tube. The pedals, saddle, and other small parts were in a box at the bottom, stapled in place to the bottom of the box.

I'm going to make a post on this over in C&V since it's no longer a matter of value in that I already bought these. Now the question is how to equip these and what will fit.
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Old 02-04-11, 09:03 PM   #12
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Remember that anything on this bike that has threads is French threads. I bought a brand new top-of-the line Motobecane Le Champion in 1973 for $350 but that was without the wheels as I wanted to build my own with Phil Wood sealed bearing hubs. Kept it until a few years ago when I had long since moved on to recumbents. I asked around if anybody wanted it for free and no takers. Finally gave it to a charity that provided bikes to low income workers for transportation to and from work.
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Old 02-05-11, 12:14 AM   #13
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Remember that anything on this bike that has threads is French threads. I bought a brand new top-of-the line Motobecane Le Champion in 1973 for $350 but that was without the wheels as I wanted to build my own with Phil Wood sealed bearing hubs. Kept it until a few years ago when I had long since moved on to recumbents. I asked around if anybody wanted it for free and no takers. Finally gave it to a charity that provided bikes to low income workers for transportation to and from work.
I don't know who you asked, but a '73 Motobecane LeChampion would easily bring $500-675 depending on condition.
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