cmsanfor 

So I came across these two rather similar Legnanos on craigslist and am very interested in getting one or the other. The first is a Gran Premio from the mid 60s, which I understand was in the middle of their range. The second is a Mod. Roma from the early 60s, which was more towards the top of the line. My concern is that the price on both might be a little high, especially the gran premio. I've spoken to both owners and looked at images of both bikes, and each seems to be in pretty immaculate condition for their age, but I was hoping someone might have some more insight. Basically, which is closer to its actual value? And which would you expect to hold that value for longer? Here are the links and some images:

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/2210017691.html
https://slo.craigslist.org/bik/2200497345.html

cmsanfor 

Here are some better images of the Gran Premio:

Picchio Special

If both were from the reported eras (i.e. middle 60's for one and early for the other), I don't think the prices would be out of line at all. But with respect both, they're either later or parts have been replaced - I'm looking at the Nuovo Record derailleur and the shifters on the Gran Premio, which indicate it's probably a 70's bike, and the Universal 68's on the "Roma." I'd want more details regarding which components are on the green one - this will go to rarity and age of the bike to some extent. They're both nice bikes - I think the green one will always be worth more. I would try to get a better handle on the age and originality of both - if they're later than advertised, I think I'd try to go $100-200 lower, especially on the green one. There are bigger Legnano experts than me on this forum, however, and pricing is not my thing with brands I don't know so well.

T-Mar

+1 regarding parts having been replaced on both, however I don't think the ages are too far off. Both have the brake hanger stud on the back of the seat, indicating that they are 1960s models. I didn't see any statement in the Roma ad saying it was early 1960s, only that it was 1960's, which it the frame definitely is.

The picture on the Roma is too poor to identify the components, however, it is the more desirable frame and has the potential to be worth more than the Gran Premio. Prices seem a bit high but then again, you're living in one of the most inflated markets.

social suicide

I have a '60's Legano too. Has a campy seatpost clamp and Legnano on everthing else, even the rims, brake levers, cranks and front hub. I have the original seat but its to uncomfortabe to sit on. I can't tell if the shifter business is original to the bike, its been machined to fit the top(?) tube.

Picchio Special

Yeah, it was the OP who said "early 60's" - I noticed it wasn't in the ad.
I'd really want to get a handle on what parts might be original - the more earlier stuff that's on the bikes, the more they're worth.
I remain a little sceptical on the age of the red one - I can see swapping out the rear derailleur for a newer/better one, but it would be odd to change the shifters, and if they were 60's (except maybe very, very late 60's) they would have the black backing plates.

cmsanfor 

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the advice so far, I definitely agree the derailleurs and shifters look a little out of place on the grand premio. You're also right that the age of the Roma is more a guess on my part than anything, from the little bit of research I've done it seems like they switched from cottered cranks/campy gran sport gear to nuovo record sets by the mid-late 60s though. Here's a link showing a 1967 model with a catalog image of what appears to be the bike in the ad:

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...-romeo-rb.html

Anyway, I'll get a little more info about the Roma and keep you posted, will also see if I cant get the sellers down by 100 or so as well.

cmsanfor 

Got the link to images of the Roma, components would definitely seem to indicate mid to late 60s. Let me know if you guys find anything out of the ordinary, and thanks again for the help everyone.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/5563531...th/5422252515/

Picchio Special

My hunch is that it was built up with semi-period correct parts for a 60's Roma. It's interesting that it has a Gran Sport rear derailleur, but the Universal 68 brakes. Those suggest different eras to me. Also, the front derailleur looks to be late 60's at the earliest. The shifters don't appear to be correct for the era. On a Roma from the mid-late 60's, I think I'd expect a Campagnolo crankset as well (and a "Record" rear derailleur). It looks like a reasonable but not over-conscientious later build of the original frame. I'm not so sure the frame isn't restored as well, but I'll leave comments on the frame per se to the Legnano folks. My sense is that if the crankset and rear derailleur are correct, then the shifters, brakes, and front derailleur are "wrong," and vice versa.
It's a cool bike - you could try to sell some parts to fund the "correct" ones, once you determine more precisely the year of the frame. I think I would definitely try to talk the seller down a bit, in any case.

T-Mar

+1, there's lots that doesn't jive and it's a proximity rebuild. I can't narrow down the date further because of the inconsistancies. However, there are two things I can say with absolute certainty. The Universal 68 brakeset is not original. Universal 61 would be correct, based on the hanger stud on the back of the seat lug. Secondly, it's an obvious repaint. Even assuming the colour tint is off due to camera exposure settings, it's far too opaque for the correct verde transparente.

With all due respect, I'm going to disagree with Picchio regarding the crankset. To the best of my knowldege, all the 1960s Roma were issued with the Record cotterless crankset.

Picchio Special

I wrote a whole bunch of stuff stating why I disagreed with you, only to just now realize I completely agree: all the 60's Romas I've seen have the Record cotterless set. I didn't mean to suggest the OP's crankset was plausibly 60's, only to point out the disparity in the eras - I thought it possible that perhaps the frame is earlier than 1960, but don't know enough about Legnano frames to really say so. My statements about what I "expect to see" in this case have less to do with Legnano knowledge (mine is nascent - but growing - as I've only really recently taken an interest in them) than with my knowledge of bike bits (and their period correctness) generally.