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  1. #1
    New Orleans
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    1998 Jamis Dragon 853 Reynolds- why not $395 - no sale $395

    The below bike- 1998 Jamis Dragon 853 framed bike- middling components was offered for $395 delivered- no takers.
    It probably was decontented -cheaper components etc installed at some time in the past.
    Why didn't anyone think it was worth $395?
    It is/was worth $370 to me.I wanted a nice steel frame- all around use- mainly street.

    The various Trek 930 ,950,970 of the same vintage(mid late 1990's) sell for about $200 around here-NOLA now. They are DB True Temper tubing- roughly the same components as this one.Will sell my Trek 950 to finance this buy.
    I'll take the Suspension fork off the 853 put on a rigid CROMO or CF fork.
    Thanks
    Charlie
    So why are they in so little demand? MTBs still tough sales in most places?
    In NOLA Good bikes(especially cromo or other quality steel and DB) sell well (lotta' college, post college students-male and female) Bikes cheaper than cars.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/98-JAMIS-DRAGON-...item588cd0ccca

  2. #2
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I really understand the question, but the thing that sticks out with that frame is that it is 13," which is so far on the small end of the sizing spectrum that it has limited marketability.

    I don't understand where the $395 you mention is coming from, the ebay auction you linked has a starting bid of $99 (no bids) with shipping of charges at $95.

  3. #3
    New Orleans
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    Well biked
    Thanks for the reply.
    The link is two the second or third attempt for this bike shop to sell it. I was unclear using that link.
    The time before it started at $299.99 with shipping of $95. We came to a deal during the auction linked.
    You are right about size 13" is suitable for 5'2" to 5'7" in a MTB- roughly the same folks who ride a 50cm road frame.
    When I buy to sell I tend to specialize in bikes I actually want to ride or own-short bikes. Short good quality USED bikes are good sellers here-NOLA.

    I have found a fair female college students say they have trouble finding short, but decent quality used do everything bikes- bikes that sell for $180-$300.
    Women are easier to deal with as buyers. No whining and not as many test ride, low ball offer, test ride low ball offer,phone call low ball offer.
    I would have trouble selling it here for $400, but I'll have no trouble selling my Trek 950 -roughly same size- for $250- lugged DB CROMO True Temper OX.This frame is $150 better, so I bought it.
    Women seems less interested in 700c vs 26" and have no interest in the fixed gear no brakes or single speed no shifters fad.
    Single speed interest is fading here-despite being flatland(with occasional bridges overpasses).
    Charlie

  4. #4
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    I do love Jamis mountain bikes, in fact my current mountain bike is an '09 Jamis Dragon 29 (Reynolds 853). Confession: that's what attracted me to this thread. I ride a 17" frame and I'm 5'7.5," for what it's worth. I've done a lot of mountain biking, and this Jamis 29er I'm currently riding is my favorite mountain bike ever.

    I own a bike shop, and we are a Jamis dealer. My take on older, used mountain bikes (let's say 10 years old or older) is that it really doesn't matter much how nice they were when they were new, the bottom line is that they are a 10 year old or older mountain bike, and they have, to use an accountant's term, depreciated out. There are exceptions, of course, in the rare case of a collectible bike, but for something like a '98 Jamis Dragon, nice as it was when new, it's just an old mountain bike now.

    When we get old, used, decent mountain bikes like this in, we can usually sell them pretty quickly for $150-225, depending on condition. The reality is that the 13" frame size would probably be a big hindrance unless we just happen to get lucky. But we'd be wasting our breath trying to convince someone it's worth more because it's a Reynolds 853 frame instead of some lower grade of chromoly; the typical customer for that bike simply doesn't know the difference and doesn't care.

    Not trying to be a downer, just calling it like I see it.
    Last edited by well biked; 03-06-11 at 02:10 PM.

  5. #5
    New Orleans
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    Well biked
    I get it.These guys(bike shop in Blacksburg Virginia) were probably happy to get the $275 for the bike- good deal for them, and I can't buy a 853 frame for $300(except the Nashbar one occasionally) so it is good for me too. I like nice frames.
    It will cost them $60 or so to ship it+ a fair amount of time to prepare it for shipping- $95 is fair S&H.
    I bought it strictly for the frame- the parts will go on the Trek 950 - to be sold off.
    Yeah old MTBs are useless as MTBs but they make great do anything urban bikes
    People here will pay a premium for a TREK and they will pay more for cromo and DB frame.
    Woman are better buyers and they are generally shorter, so I aim my ads that way -"Quality Short adult Urban Bike"- I never mention MTB- no MTs in New Orleans. Strictly a Hobby-lucky to make $30/bike- just fun- I like bikes.I've had good luck selling them- but it wouldn't make $$ and cents sense.Lotta young somewhat affluent folks also-6 universities.

  6. #6
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    If the frame size was a 16.5 or larger and in close to stock or slightly upgraded form it would bring 400 anywhere but size and mixed bag of components 275 would sell it.

  7. #7
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    I agree the frame size is is really small. did this bike come stock with a suspension fork? the mixed components may be putting some off. the close up of the cracked yellow tires does not look acctractive either.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  8. #8
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    zlr 101 Bianchigirll-
    Thanks for the response.
    You are right- 13" means suitable for 5'1" to 5'6"- not many MTB riders.
    Right again,I doubt it came with the cheapish suspension fork.
    The tires- (honest seller- good picture of cheezy tires)
    In hindsight it is obvious why they couldn't get anyone to fork out $395.
    I bought it for the 853 frame.Small 853 frames are hard to find for $275.The parts are worth $125 to me.
    I did it because it was worth maybe $200 more to me than my Trek 950 ( True Temper OX DB lugged frame).
    I doubt I will be able to tell ANY riding quality difference between the Jamis 853 and the Trek True Temper OX.But I like nice bike frames- so I bought it.
    The Trek will sell for $200-$275- but I'll have to spend lots of time switching parts (Mavic Crossmax ceramic rims- XTR V- brakes- its rigid cromo fork-LX crankset)
    Yes now obvious why no offers of $395.
    I love nice frames- even when I can't feel their "goodness" I know it is there.
    Thanks
    Charlie

  9. #9
    Muscle bike design spec robtown's Avatar
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    I'm in a good Craigslist sellers' market. Even so, most MTB go for $120 - $200 after they have been cleaned up and shown with good pictures. You had good pictures - plenty of nice sized shots - but no bling. The $100 shipping probably put off some people. I'd say try for $250 - $275 locally.

    BTW - since you mentioned paying $x for the bike and not getting it back:
    I paid more for most of the bikes (road) that I've built up for my fleet. One common feature of all of my keepers is I wouldn't get back what I put into them. A feature of almost all the bikes I've refurbished / built and sold are that I got my money out plus a few dollars to spend on my fleet.
    Last edited by robtown; 03-07-11 at 11:21 AM.
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  10. #10
    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtown View Post
    I'm in a good Craigslist sellers' market. Even so, most MTB go for $120 - $200 after they have been cleaned up and shown with good pictures. You had good pictures - plenty of nice sized shots - but no bling. The $100 shipping probably put off some people. I'd say try for $250 - $275 locally.

    BTW - since you mentioned paying $x for the bike and not getting it back:
    I paid more for most of the bikes (road) that I've built up for my fleet. One common feature of all of my keepers is I wouldn't get back what I put into them. A feature of almost all the bikes I've refurbished / built and sold are that I got my money out plus a few dollars to spend on my fleet.
    +1 To all the above, its a 12 year old MTB, even high end ones get minimal respect. There are just a couple of collectible MTBs, this Jamis and the Trek 900 series are not in that group. I have two Trek 950s right now.

    +1 Replacement fork a big negative value wise.

    Older MTBs around here sell for $100 to $150, the really nice ones might push as high as $175. They sell into the "recreational" bike market, many sellers are comparing to the Xmart stuff out there. They really don't care about frame material, its more subjective, is the bike "light" or "heavy". FWIW: a fifteen year old MTB that originally sold for $250 might bring $125 around here, while a MTB that might have sold for $900, might bring $175. So as a buyer, the higher end stuff can be a good value, (as a keeper). The smaller ones tend to sell to moms, that want to ride around the neighborhood with the kids. Its pretty funny watching various riders in my neighborhood, with knobby tires, and never leaving pavement.

    Serious MTBs want modern bikes. In that recreational market, a Trek will get a lot more response than a Jamis.

    If it was up to me, vintage MTBs would get a lot more respect, particularly the higher end ones. But it is not up to me, and the market up to now just doesn't have much interest in them.
    Last edited by wrk101; 03-07-11 at 01:31 PM.

  11. #11
    New Orleans
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    Yes, you are right Treks sell great.No one has ever heard of Jamis- most never heard of Reynolds 531 or 853- or DB.
    Many of my buyers do think/know that cromo steel frames are better.
    I sorta specialize in selling cromo steel framed MTBS Treks, Diamondbacks,Specialized, newer Paramount MTBs to college aged folks who don't want a WalMart bike.
    I never mention MTB- I call them urban/suburban/light trail do anything bikes "great for our potholed streets with quality cromo steel frame not cheapo heav WalMart steel or easily dented aluminum." "Much better city bike than $350 37lb single speed Schwinn Varsity with crummy brakes." I take a few cheap shots at my competition- single speed makers flippers-all true of course.
    Like you guys imply they don't care that it has 26" wheels vs 700c- 26" is more versatile.
    NOLA is sorta' college town- lotta young people who ride bikes-and they don't want WalMart.
    Gotta agree on resale worth of my keepers-this 853 is typical- tough sell for "I have in it- but it is worth $370 to me because the Trek 950 with the 853 's parts will sell for $200-$275.
    NOLA is a good city for selling inexpensive used bikes-older steel MTBs are perfect for our streets- aluminum is fine but harder to sell.
    Thanks
    Charlie

  12. #12
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    MTB market is really really bad.. i see MTBs going for under $100 all day long on CL, while old crappy schwinn varsitys from the 70s can fetch $200+

    edit: PS, might want to lay off the ALL CAPS in your ebay ad.. makes it hard to read so people might just click back

    that's definitely not a $200 bike though.. you could get the shipping price maybe around here
    Last edited by frantik; 03-08-11 at 02:41 AM.
    1986 Diamondback Apex ~ 1988 Diamondback Ascent EX ~ 1989 Jamis Dakar ~ 1989 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp
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  13. #13
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    Wow,
    I sure got an answer to my question of "why not $395?"
    Either our market in NOLA is much better than markets in other places-or I'm a much better salesman than I give myself credit for.
    Frantik- you literally couldn't get $100 for an undented 853 frame with QR wheels XT rear derailleur, XT shifters some sort of 9 speed cassette??
    No exaggeration??
    Best DB steel tubing made and you can't get $100??
    I never sell a MTB in NOLA by calling it a MTB. It is a "urban/suburban/light trail bike."
    Occasionally I switch the tires out to Nashbar $9.95 slicks, but usually I just sell them with whatever they arrived with-just like WRK101.
    I suspect it is the high concentration of somewhat affluent college kids that make NOLA a different market.They are accustomed to spending $100's on phones,Ipods etc, they have been to bike shops and seem that base models are $300, and they have some vague notion that "steel frames are better."They are happy to spend $200 on an older Trek cromo. Now it would be tougher to sell the Jamis than the Trek 950-no question Treks sell well.
    I've sold maybe 20 Trek MTBs in the last 4 years.A $150 bike sells in 7 days- $215 5 weeks.It doesn't make $$ & cents sense to buy the better ones, but I like them,so I do it anyway- hobby- I like bikes.
    Our market with all the theft and "college kids" is a bit different.The single speed convert prices help also-POS boat anchor Schwinn prices also help.Who wants to haul a 40 lb $250 skinny tired Schwinn with pitiful brakes up stairs when they can haul a 30 lb -$130-Trek 820-that actually stops when asked?
    I'm stunned the markets are so different, but question answered.
    Thanks
    Charlie
    PS Noticed this sounded a bit whiny-didn't get answer I expected, so I'm sounding whiny. I asked this same question-more or less- 3 months back- Trek 930 bought for $125 on Ebay- sold 3 days for $185. Couldn't believe no one wanted it for $125. Same story - you folks said you can only get $100 in your locale for good older MTBs. NOLA is a good city to sell good steel frame big tire bikes.We have horrendous potholes(river delta, soil sinks, potholes form, not much $4 to fix). It doesn't make sense to ride 120 psi 20mm on pitiful concrete and asphalt.Lots of young adults with some $$ education means they are trendy- steel name brand bikes are trendy-Walmart= not trendy. Cromo MTB bikes are also-VERY GOOD for city purposes-perfect really.
    Last edited by phoebeisis; 03-08-11 at 07:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
    Frantik- you literally couldn't get $100 for an undented 853 frame with QR wheels XT rear derailleur, XT shifters some sort of 9 speed cassette??
    No exaggeration??
    Best DB steel tubing made and you can't get $100??
    you might be able to, but it depends on who is buying.. you have to find someone who knows what the parts are.. but even then there is a huge selection of $50 - 100 MTBs in my market .. check it out: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/b...=50&maxAsk=100
    Last edited by frantik; 03-08-11 at 07:40 AM.
    1986 Diamondback Apex ~ 1988 Diamondback Ascent EX ~ 1989 Jamis Dakar ~ 1989 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp
    1993 Trek 8300 Composite ~ 1993 Diamondback Axis Team Titanium ~ 1995 Diamondback Apex

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  15. #15
    New Orleans
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    frantik-
    I see what you mean.Cheap MTBs- are plentiful and Cheap.
    In NOLA we have lots of $30-$60 Magnas/Mongooses -just like you do. They have roughly the same asking prices- original price $100 sell for $50 - probably get $35 or so.
    I noticed none of these ads specifically mentioned frame material- quick look indicates they are cheap aluminum and cheap high tensile steel. One or two were probably straight gauge CROMO(one of the Treks was probably an 820 (MAIN TUBES cromo) one was an 800(seat tube cromo).
    I would never call those bikes MTBs in an ad- not if I actually planned to sell it !
    I have one true MTB bike- Giant NRS air- 2002 vintage- that I'm stuck trying to sell as a MTB. It will be a tough sale despite the Hugi 240 hubs and other upgrades. I will have a heck of a time getting $450 for it. I can Ebay the parts and net $400+ whatever the frame is worth- lotta work/shipping,listings etc
    Yeah calling a bike a MTB in a CL ad is a kiss of death.They are "urban/light trail bikes with wide tires to take potholes and smooth out the ride."
    Tough to sell an old MTB. Easier to sell an urban/light trail that can "jump curbs and take potholes."
    To sell smaller bikes " High quality short adult bike"- shorter woman are always hunting for decent bikes that actually fit.Much better buyers than know it all guys. Of course the bikes I sell actually are quality cromo bikes.Honesty sells.
    Thanks
    Charlie

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