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Old 10-10-11, 07:48 PM   #1
Dovetube
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too bent over damage to internet-sale Colnago?

I bid on a bottom-of-the-line fixed-gear conversion on a famous server. I reconciled the Cromor tubing with self-assurances it wouldn't whip on descents, although the second thing to shock me about the frame was the ugly dropouts. The seller emphasized it was a Colnago and opened at $250. On unpacking I instantly noticed it was a hit-a-brick-wall frame, which I won't explain further here. Despite the tone here I'd like some objective opinions about whether this bike isn't safer than I thought.
[revision]
I'm sorry about my writing, having repeated English comp up to where I need toes to keep count. The following paragraph recounts my resolution with the seller; the resolution process isn't binding, it just spares "the server" having to deal with the dispute. When I initially complained that explicit answers by the seller, whom I call "Norma," about whether the frame was dented and whether it could be reverted to derailleur use were wrong because of it hitting a kerb or a wall, Norma said to send it back on her dime. After I asked Norma if that meant they would pay return shipping I read yes, I get refund and return shipping and then I started to read the "no problem"'s. So I replied that I would repack it, send Norma a tracking number billing Norma for the cost: "No problem." Then Norma complained that they only paid $50 to ship me the bike, not having told me my payment, which was knocked down from $86, included $25 non-bikeshop packing job. I was surprised, -no, angry, because "Brown" was going to charge me $85 to return without guarantee of not having the bike at the bottom of a pile of parcels. So I went to FedEx, and paid $74 to send it back with signature and $277 insurance. Since Norma stuck it to me, i.e. reneged on their promises in resolving the dispute, I used "truthful" to describe the attribute their listing lacked in complaining about how I shopped around for shipping of an item I wouldn't have bid on ("touched") had I known it hit a wall. Norma, having been supplied a tracking number, wouldn't even return what I first paid for shipping, because I overpaid %9 of this deal to freight carrier, apparently worse than not detecting some buckled tubes in a bike frame bought for resale. Norma has since relisted the item without any revision which induces me to be a peckerhead [Re:feedback] purely on the lookout for others. (Since being burnt to a crisp by vintageparts1978 and forfeiting leaving feedback because his frame took so long to arrive, I have simply left no feedback when burnt, if SoMEThing actually arrives.)
So much for 2nd, (now 3d) paragraph hopefully, although this must be a stale thread. When I refer to "customer service executable," I just mean that "the server" and its funds transfer agent are "processes," running computer programs which are inflexible and only work when the parameters are ideal to the parties and the process both. Hence the sarcasm about Norma's "fear" of the dispute resolution service; it cost me $75 to be enticed by this frame, (because of the chrome, albeit Colnago is most certainly a [mass?] producer where the value is emphatically based in the fabulous paint and graphics, (something I communicated to the seller before knowing I'd been had, forwarding a link to the same model with red paint.)) Buyer protection, my but! The frame I bought from vintageparts1978 took so long to get here that the day of the deadline I filed a case because it hadn't arrived; accordingly same deadline revoked my privelege of leaving feedback. (wouldn't YoU prefer incoherent to verbose?) Anyhow, the frame arrived a few days later, and vintageparts1978 was bird-dogging me because "the server" had confiscated all the money. When I unpacked this item which had filled vintageparts1978's eyes with dollar signs I noticed the fork was a heavy knockoff where the dropouts were ground for a total of 2 seconds to remove the fender eyelets. I thought when looking at the frame that "the server" had not dealt fairly with vintageparts1978 while being po'd about the fork, and negotiated what I thought was a fair payment for a real frame with bogus fork. Forward to my finding out the frame hadn't any prep and bottom bracket threads were trashed by Mavic cartridge BB which is supposed to be installed with chamferring which is a modification but reversible. Instead the frame isn't usable even with modern external bearing BB's, and here I willingly paid higher than market for a production marque of junk, where the finish and chrome must be destroyed if any repair is to be effected. (I took it to LBS's with my tail between my legs to get written assessments that it was (undetectable) junk; the pro shop had to be demonstrated the lack of grip in the threads and wouldn't write down anything.) I can find no contact information for any customer service at Paypal outside the dialogs and buttons accessed with browsers; peripherally to my rant, I do not think that packaging a market in a database and managing the database qualifies a person to rule over millions of people, and the income of the database would warrant maybe more employees or flexibility and fairness in contract enforcement. It's a moot point, but it sort of makes my rant more objective if it's incomprehensible, because the pictures "do the talking;" I just thought I should cut a "lay person" some slack, but now that Norma is relisting without even mentioning my griping, I think more that Norma is "disingenuous." I promise other posts will be more patina and less whine.

I threw in another $75 to return it, at the second shipper I went to, to save $10; the seller was so fearful of the resolution service they promised those funds and everything I'd sent up front, but that's fallen through because I paid too much to make it go away, according to them (within $2 of what I paid but they added handling.) This just means I now have to click buttons to try get my money back.

This stuff doesn't photo, but the seller answered the question about dents with a reply that there were no dents, and they got to look up close, haggle, etc. The down tube manifests the incident with the appearance of internal reinforcement of the shifter bosses; whether it's bent is extent in buyer's and seller's eye. Have I got any right here or does this look (to customer service executable) like a bicycle in fine condition, albeit with about 1.25in sq chrome peeled off as well?
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Last edited by Dovetube; 10-17-11 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Gobblety-gook
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Old 10-10-11, 09:41 PM   #2
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Colnago? where is the paint?
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Old 10-10-11, 09:57 PM   #3
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Maybe it's just the chrome, but I can't see any dents or bent areas. Maybe I'd just have to see it in person. Is the fork original and straight? Usually the fork is the first thing to bend in a front-end crash. Then the frame can be bent too if the crash is bad enough.

For your amusement, here is an old Firenze MTB I used in college one year. One day, riding up to class the steel rims were wet and I didn't realize I had no brakes until the front tire slammed (literally) into a brick wall. I rode this bike the rest of the year, then dumped it on craigslist for $25.


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Old 10-10-11, 11:11 PM   #4
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I can't even understand your rant.

KeS
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Old 10-10-11, 11:31 PM   #5
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seriously. english not your first language?
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Old 10-10-11, 11:35 PM   #6
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I see the dent on the tt, but not on the DT. Not saying there is no dent on the DT, it's just that it's really hard to see
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Old 10-11-11, 06:44 AM   #7
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I see the dent on the tt, but not on the DT. Not saying there is no dent on the DT, it's just that it's really hard to see

I agree I see something on the TT but I think the angle of the pics is off just enough to make it hard to really tell what is happening.



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Old 10-11-11, 08:05 AM   #8
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I'd say it definitely has been hit and that you should get your money back, if possible.
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Old 10-11-11, 08:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
Maybe it's just the chrome, but I can't see any dents or bent areas. Maybe I'd just have to see it in person. Is the fork original and straight? Usually the fork is the first thing to bend in a front-end crash. Then the frame can be bent too if the crash is bad enough.

For your amusement, here is an old Firenze MTB I used in college one year. One day, riding up to class the steel rims were wet and I didn't realize I had no brakes until the front tire slammed (literally) into a brick wall. I rode this bike the rest of the year, then dumped it on craigslist for $25.

$25???? in that shape? just slide the seat back and it looks like a $150 bike easy
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Old 10-11-11, 09:52 AM   #10
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Crashed

I agree with your assessment. Bike was misrepresented. Fork's not OE for that reason as well.

But I have no idea what you're trying to convey in that second paragraph. Edit: couldn't read the revision

Last edited by Ex Pres; 11-11-11 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 10-11-11, 01:28 PM   #11
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I'm happy I'm not the only one who found this post incomprehensible..... What is "customer service executable?"
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Old 10-11-11, 02:52 PM   #12
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I can't understand your post, either. Take a deep breath and write it again.
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Old 10-11-11, 09:11 PM   #13
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I'm happy I'm not the only one who found this post incomprehensible..... What is "customer service executable?"
+10 Add me to that list. Kudos to anyone who understood it.

Assuming it was bought on ebay (is famous server code for ebay?), you need to file a claim on it immediately as being misrepresented and damaged. Top tube is bent.

I would go ahead with the click buttons and get your money back.

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Old 10-11-11, 09:47 PM   #14
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The second paragraph has me stumped, but nevertheless the top tube while not dented to be lawyerly is stressed showing an undulation of the surface. It should be straight and fair, this is not from chroming or polishing (aggressive polishing can cause ripples in the surface but not like that). Unwind the deal, eat the return shipping if you must. As far as it being compromised strength wise, it probably won't fall apart, but I bet if it was on a surface plate and measured, no good would show.
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Old 11-11-11, 08:27 AM   #15
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Colnago? where is the paint?
It's not a Colnago. Lugs are wrong, as is how the rear brake cable is hidden in the top tube.

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Old 11-11-11, 08:29 AM   #16
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(wouldn't YoU prefer incoherent to verbose?)
We got both incoherent and verbose.



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Old 11-11-11, 09:39 AM   #17
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We got both incoherent and verbose.



Lee
Pretty much.

Paypal holds payments in escrow until shipment is received (and sometimes until feedback-- not sure about that). But if return shipping. . . parcel post.
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Old 11-11-11, 02:24 PM   #18
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Good God, man. Stop typing.
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Old 11-11-11, 02:33 PM   #19
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I'm still trying to understand the title.

too bent over damage to internet-sale Colnago?

What? More for what said read not many, damage Colnago, bummer.
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Old 11-11-11, 03:27 PM   #20
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Yeah. Internet damage is nothing to get bent over. Or got bent. Which is odd. Unless you mean "bender". No, not the Futurama character. Bender as in a binge consumption of adult beverages.

Famous server: I still know not this server of notoriety. Server of repute. These days it's either a virtual machine or a cluster of machines. Load balancing and all that. Don't want to have a single point of failure in a service architecture. Although, one can't always control the main route. If that goes down we're all screwed. Well, sort of. Verizon does some weird stuff from time to time. And people wonder why their faxes sometimes fail. Verizon. Which used to be Bell Atlantic. James Earl Jones did voice overs and appearances for Bell Atlantic advertising. Jones also was the voice fo CNN sweeps. Comedy Central sweep was Penn Jilette in the early to mid 1990's. But before that, Jilette played a small time drug dealer on an episode of Miami Vice-- "Prodigal Son" Season 2 Episode 1. He was gruesomely killed. That episode was directed by Paul Michael Glaser of Starsky fame and thus, considered a marginally famous actor. No relation to the famous server, I suspect.

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Old 11-11-11, 03:42 PM   #21
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Pat, I'd like to buy a paragraph please...

sorry I got lost somewhere after the 2nd or 3rd run on sentence.
Hell I'm no grammar snob but that was painful.
I concur it's not a colnago, and I doubt that you could
describe Cromor as being whippy (you did say that didn't you?).
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Old 11-11-11, 04:09 PM   #22
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Pat, I'd like to buy a paragraph please...

sorry I got lost somewhere after the 2nd or 3rd run on sentence.
Hell I'm no grammar snob but that was painful.
I concur it's not a colnago, and I doubt that you could
describe Cromor as being whippy (you did say that didn't you?).
For Koresh's sake man! Can't you read gibberish? He reconciled his dissatisfaction over the fact that the frame is Cromor by telling himself that at least it wouldn't be whippy, implying that Cromor, while having some un-named deficiency, is not whippy! Get up to speed man!

...I mean, I beg to differ....

Last edited by cranky old road; 11-11-11 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Just noticed the three blue stars
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Old 11-12-11, 11:36 AM   #23
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I have no idea what the OP is trying to convey.
If their referring to eBay, I can find no seller called vintageparts1978
If a seller posted pics of that bike even a distant side view would make that sort of frame damage even more noticeable.
After seeing there's no seller by the name mentioned, I have even less of a clue as to what this post is about.
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Old 11-13-11, 06:48 AM   #24
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I have even less of a clue as to what this post is about.
But that won't stop us from talking about it for 4 or 5 pages. . .
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Old 11-15-11, 11:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by lml999 View Post
It's not a Colnago. Lugs are wrong, as is how the rear brake cable is hidden in the top tube.

Lee
My observation as well, the lugs are wrong.

How long did it take for you to write that post. I got through a 3rd of the way and then gave up.

-G
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