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Old 03-28-12, 11:56 AM   #1
dozyaustin
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1984 Sekai 2400 - $175. Fair?

Hey y'all I have been in communication with a guy selling a 2400 Sekai (I suspect it may be 2500 because of color combo, but he is not ignorant of bikes, so I would be surprised if he did make such a mistake)

Here is the description - no pictures yet

Conversation 1:
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I also will be putting on craigslist a 1984 Sekai touring bike of the same dimensions as the Gary Fisher, and I will be selling this bike for $175. It is cranberry red with white lettering. It has downtube shifters, a rear rack, a triple crank, and Continental tires [excellent in wet weather]. I used this as my personal touring bike, but I have so many that I am selling off about 20.
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I will be taking some photos of the Sekai 2400 very shortly. In fact, I'll probably take it for a ride this afternoon as it was one of my personal favorites. The bike is from 1984 -85, and the frame was made by Miyata in Japan. The Sekai 2400 Limited has a 22 1/2" Cro-Moly frame [57 cm] frame with a standover height of 33 inches, including top cable. I am 5' 10" with a 32" inseam and have no problem riding it with comfort. The derailleurs are SunTour with 18 speeds. The front triple crank is unusual in that it has a 52/47/34 ring, and was designed for quick day touring or communting. I changed out the brake pads to "Kool-Stop" on the cantilever brakes as I used it in the mountains. It has the throwback Christophe metal toeclips and straps, and an ancient [perhaps the first] Blackburn rack bag on the rear rack. The seat is a generic but comfortable Performance Forte.

I actually used this bike in the Jalapeno 100 miler in McAllen, Texas about three years ago, and finished well up in the pack. I am only selling any of these bikes because my wife and I decided to get down to 10 bikes as we get older. My thoughts of opening up a bike shop have passed.
I have done a ton of research on Sekais over the past few days and if this bike is in a good shape and fits, I am very comfortable buying it .. The question then remains, at what price is this a good deal? This is in the Austin, TX area at the beginning of the biking season (well all year is biking season down here, but I digress) .... so the prices will never be rock bottom from a knowledgeable seller such as this guy.

Thanks.

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Old 03-28-12, 01:57 PM   #2
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Here are some photos of the Sekai 2400. The rear bag [which is as old as the bike] is a little crooked due to it leaning up against the car, but it is really a sturdy bag. FYI: though white handlebar tape looks very cool at first, it does attract dirt and grim over time.

Also, if you look very closely at the chain in the second photo, it is not on the outer chain ring, but on the middle one [the one with 47 teeth]. Thus, this bike gives you a large amount of gears of different ratios for going up and down the various large and small hills in Austin. It also has a very good "granny" gear for those more substantial hills. The bike also has one water bottle cage, and a second water bottle holder is located on the rear bag underneath the seat where the name "Blackburn" is written. It has a rare bike pump holder on the top tube. Both wheels are quick release, and the tires are 27" by 1 1/4" with Schraeder [standard] valves.
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Old 03-28-12, 02:08 PM   #3
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I don't know about this practicular bike, but touring bikes are highly desireable. It looks like a great buy. I would be trying to get that $175 in his pocket as soon as possible!

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Old 03-28-12, 02:10 PM   #4
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If it fits and you'll ride it, probably.
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Old 03-28-12, 02:13 PM   #5
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Is it worth $175.00?

The Sugino triple crank alone on eBay goes for $60.00 to over $100.00.
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Old 03-28-12, 02:13 PM   #6
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Can I be a snob and say that I really "hate" that is has cantilever brakes? .... .... this is still a prejudice I carry from good ole days of horrible plastic cantilevers on horribly cheap mountain bikes of my adolescence.

(have not bought cantilevers since, lol)

I think I may need to get over that one in a hurry.

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Is it worth $175.00?

The Sugino triple crank alone on eBay goes for $60.00 to over $100.00.
o_O did not know that!

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Old 03-28-12, 02:15 PM   #7
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175 is fair for my area, maybe even a steal in my area actually. I personally however would not shell out that for 2400, the lowest model Sekai I myself own is a 2500. But we all gotta start somewhere right? The frame looks to be good quality etc, keep in mind though it's probably actualy double butted tange. The reason I personally don't like the below 2500 models is they aren't typically equipped with barcons as the higher models are, but this really looks like a nice well preserved Sekai specimen and if I were in that area, and didn't have one already I personally would probably snap it up. If you need any more details on Sekai etc, I can do my best to help you or direct you to others with more info. Let me know.
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Old 03-28-12, 02:21 PM   #8
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175 is fair for my area, maybe even a steal in my area actually. I personally however would not shell out that for 2400, the lowest model Sekai I myself own is a 2500. But we all gotta start somewhere right? The frame looks to be good quality etc, keep in mind though it's probably actualy double butted tange. The reason I personally don't like the below 2500 models is they aren't typically equipped with barcons as the higher models are, but this really looks like a nice well preserved Sekai specimen and if I were in that area, and didn't have one already I personally would probably snap it up. If you need any more details on Sekai etc, I can do my best to help you or direct you to others with more info. Let me know.
RaleighSport,

Thanks, I have been reading the database thread and anything else i can find on BF. After conversation #1, I was hoping it was the 2500, but alas. What are all the differences from 2400 to the higher mainstream models.

The sticker says it is Tange #2, which is the same thing used on 2500+, correct? Still bummed about the cantilevers, but I will get over that. That triple crank is fascinating - I assume that is not stock - especially with that gearing.

I am going over the first opportunity I get (he's a busy fella) ... luckily I got on this before it was posted on CL, so I am not competing with others (yet).
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Old 03-28-12, 02:33 PM   #9
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That triple may or may not be stock, by the time you get into the mid 80's Sekai's we're actually talking Norco not truly Sekai anymore, in terms of innovations anyhow. The differences between the 2400 and 2500 would mainly be componentwise, but there's still a silver lining here almost every Sekai I've seen or read the specs on, or looked at pics of have extremely high level components for what the frames really are, I think all your really missing out on is barcons and probably 1 tier of component level if that. To give you an idea, my 2500 came stock with a fairly nice cylcone GT group, and color matching black anodized diacompe brakes and weinman levers with black covers etc.. very stylish. My 2700 however has higher end super luxe components, the grandfather of sidepull quick release brakes of goodness too.. one model level and one year apart. And tange #2 is pretty much the universal go to material in Sekai frames, was innovative in the 70's because of the double butting.

Definitely go check it out, test ride it. I find them to be a very luxurious rider, definitely not a speed machine. Oh if you do indeed get it, I wouldn't mind you listing the specs so we can add it to the database....
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Old 03-28-12, 02:34 PM   #10
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Is it worth $175.00?

The Sugino triple crank alone on eBay goes for $60.00 to over $100.00.
Holy hell ... googled and this eBay record came up!! $210 for the Sugino Mighty Tour 52-47-34 cranks!


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Old 03-28-12, 02:40 PM   #11
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I've changed my mind, just go buy it.
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Old 03-28-12, 02:43 PM   #12
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Holy hell ... googled and this eBay record came up!! $210 for the Sugino Mighty Tour 52-47-34 cranks!



I think the Sugino Mighty is a level or two above the Sugino AT on the bike you're investigating. I think Tange Champion is an awesome tube set. It's on my Lotus Legend that's been abused for 32 years. All the good touring bikes from the 1980's had cantilever brakes, including the much-applauded Miyata 1000 and the Lotus Odyssey and Eclair.
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Old 03-28-12, 03:16 PM   #13
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I think the Sugino Mighty is a level or two above the Sugino AT on the bike you're investigating. I think Tange Champion is an awesome tube set. It's on my Lotus Legend that's been abused for 32 years. All the good touring bikes from the 1980's had cantilever brakes, including the much-applauded Miyata 1000 and the Lotus Odyssey and Eclair.
Thanks Snydermann and everyone else. This was very helpful.
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Old 03-28-12, 04:38 PM   #14
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Seems like Austin would be a hot market for bikes, but that's a really great deal anywhere if it's not messed up in some very major way.
Touring bikes are few and far between, are great to have, and are something to hold onto to and cherish when you find one in the correct size,
This is a bike you can do some nice travelling on.
BTW, you ain't one of them young hipster fixie fellers who like to drew things, are ye?
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Old 03-28-12, 04:41 PM   #15
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Seems like Austin would be a hot market for bikes, but that's a really great deal anywhere if it's not messed up in some very major way.
Touring bikes are few and far between, are great to have, and are something to hold onto to and cherish when you find one in the correct size,
This is a bike you can do some nice travelling on.
BTW, you ain't one of them young hipster fixie fellers who like to drew things, are ye?
Breathe easy, Sekai fans don't to tend me fixie fans... or at least don't like chopping up their Sekai's.. I've got one in SS mode right now but I didn't touch a single cable stop. FYI, Sekai's despite the common touring name should be viewed as light touring bikes, if even that.
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Old 03-28-12, 04:45 PM   #16
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$175 is practically a steal, go buy it before the guy puts it on craigslist and has a dozen people e-mailing him about it.

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Can I be a snob and say that I really "hate" that is has cantilever brakes? .... .... this is still a prejudice I carry from good ole days of horrible plastic cantilevers on horribly cheap mountain bikes of my adolescence.
You've just never used good cantilevers. Cantis came on that bike because it is a touring bike (desirable) and cantilever brakes when properly setup can offer better stopping power and much more tire/fender clearance than caliper brakes. They are certainly 100x better than most of the junk side-pull caliper brakes offered in the early 80s.
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Old 03-28-12, 04:48 PM   #17
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All the good touring bikes from the 1980's had cantilever brakes, including the much-applauded Miyata 1000 and the Lotus Odyssey and Eclair.
dozyaustin,

Check out the touring bikes today, they have cantilever brakes. Cyclocross bikes have cantilever brakes. You will see older bikes called "tourers", "sport tourers" with caliper brakes.

BTW, he's including a rear alloy rack and rack trunk bag? Nice.

My '83 Lotus Eclair with cantilever brakes...


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Old 03-28-12, 06:39 PM   #18
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BTW, you ain't one of them young hipster fixie fellers who like to drew things, are ye?
This will be a commuter with a daily load of about 15 - 20lbs of stuff on the back rack. I may one day get me a single speed or a fixie show bike for the fu**(n) of t, but this is not it. This is replacing my '73 Collegiate that I used as my daily commuter for the past three years. The gears are staying on this Sekai, and fenders are going on too, as a matter of fact.

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Breathe easy, Sekai fans don't to tend me fixie fans... or at least don't like chopping up their Sekai's.. I've got one in SS mode right now but I didn't touch a single cable stop. FYI, Sekai's despite the common touring name should be viewed as light touring bikes, if even that.
The 2400 is not even their touring model. I cannot find the geometry specs on the 2400, but I suspect it is not as relaxed and long as the 2500. But, it will be commuter .. not a cross country commuter .. not for now anyways.

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$175 is practically a steal, go buy it before the guy puts it on craigslist and has a dozen people e-mailing him about it.

You've just never used good cantilevers. Cantis came on that bike because it is a touring bike (desirable) and cantilever brakes when properly setup can offer better stopping power and much more tire/fender clearance than caliper brakes. They are certainly 100x better than most of the junk side-pull caliper brakes offered in the early 80s.
Thanks for the reassurance ... I dislike the look of cantis, but first and foremost, I am looking for function ... not form. Not in this bike.

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Check out the touring bikes today, they have cantilever brakes. Cyclocross bikes have cantilever brakes. You will see older bikes called "tourers", "sport tourers" with caliper brakes.

BTW, he's including a rear alloy rack and rack trunk bag? Nice.

My '83 Lotus Eclair with cantilever brakes...
Thanks .. I read up and was surprised that cantis were as good as calipers .. even guys at my LBS's were all for V-brakes and dual pivot calipers and against cantis. Then again, we are a town of fixies and racers and a lot of pretty, pretty bikes.

I am not worried. I am waiting for him to get back in town on Wednesday then going to see it.

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Old 03-29-12, 10:29 AM   #19
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It would make an excellent commuter! Make sure it is in halfway decent mechanical shape....and BUY IT! Sounds like a great deal.

RaleighSport ... thank you for the reassurance. I actually lost some sleep last night. I had nightmares involving grinding wheels and braze-ons. You can understand. It's not only a Sekai, but a touring bike on top of that!
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Old 03-29-12, 11:59 AM   #20
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I just built up a Sekai 2400 which I believe is a 1983 model, double crank and regular diacomp brakes. I find it compairs favorably to my 1983 Trek 500. The Tange 2 frame is a very nice frame set. As mentioned above the triple and cantilever brakes make it very desirable. I find Canti's are a much better brake than the Diacomp 500's common in this era. You would pay double that for a comparable Trek or Schwinn.
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Old 04-08-12, 09:35 PM   #21
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I got it.. $165
she has a little surface rust (seems like seat accumulation on top tube and abrasion on the bottom of bottom bracket) and a small dent on the top tube 0smack dab in the middle). But rides straight and taut and I got it.

I figured, though not a screaming deal, there are ads for miserable rust heaps of hi-ten steel for $150 in Austin ... this is what I wanted, and I wanted it for under $200 .. so this is it.

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Old 04-08-12, 09:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snydermann View Post
I think the Sugino Mighty is a level or two above the Sugino AT on the bike you're investigating. I think Tange Champion is an awesome tube set. It's on my Lotus Legend that's been abused for 32 years. All the good touring bikes from the 1980's had cantilever brakes, including the much-applauded Miyata 1000 and the Lotus Odyssey and Eclair.
So the cranks are Sungino GT after all. Not sure what, if any difference does that make.
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Old 04-08-12, 10:20 PM   #23
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thats a great deal.
if you don't like the cranks, send them to me.
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Old 04-09-12, 11:29 AM   #24
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Good buy! That will be a great commuter. Note that the Trek 520's have cantis and they are the staple ride for touring and going cross country
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