jmlerch

Thanks lostarchitect, That makes sense that the 56 refers to the frame. And Ed according to Colnago-America the bike I have is not a Colnago at all. The markings and serial number do not add up. As of right now it is a mystery frame and I am dying to find out what it is because according to many so far it's a higher end Italian make. I know group sets can be changed out but this bike came with the Campi set and the Guerciotti handlebar... whether that was added on later I don't know but I bought it as is a few months ago.

Is there anywhere else on the frame where a manufacturer would leave their mark?

lostarchitect 

I don't know if I would say "higher end" for sure. As Chombi said, Gipiemme drops were often used on bikes that were good bikes, but maybe a step or 2 down from bikes with Campagnolo drops, etc. So mid range or high mid range is a better guess. But a decent bike almost for sure.

Bianchigirll 

Just a thought here.... the person you talked to at Colnago USA does not have to be the end all expert does he? Did you mention that you were in Canada and bought the bike used in Canada? If he was only looking at a US data base he would not have information on Europe, Canada and other countries models of bikes. I would keep doing some research and see if anyone knows who imported Colnagos to Canada in the '80s

I see lots of Bianchis on here and ebay that were made to sell in other countries. some look like the US model bikes some are completely different models.

If it helps Bianchi used GipMe dropouts on lots of their Italian built frames in the '80 and '90s starting at about $550 level bike up to their top of the line machines.

If the bike fits well just ride it!

jmlerch

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! You are definitely right Bianchigirll. I will email them again to see if they checked in the EU/Canadian database (or their archives). I will say that the bike does look repainted and the Colnago decals are... well... they look like a stencil job. In any case this bike could be a Colnago re-paint gone horribly wrong or a completely different bike (that lost its identity) until someone decided to paint it a Colnago.

Another thing to not about the bike. It has a spike like stud on the headtube facing inside the frame. I wonder if that gives any indication on what it could be.

Thanks again for all the feedback! Looking forward to figuring this frame out!

Bianchigirll 

Colnago USA likely has no way to access that info.

No that little thing is a pump peg. it is used to hold a frame pump in place under the toptube.


OH btw the part of the frame that rear wheel attachs to are dropouts and on the fork they are fork ends. the little tube that rear brake mounts to is the brake bridge.

jmlerch

Ah ok... lol thanks for the terminology! Always learning!

As for Colnago-America they can forward my email to their head office in Italy which is what I thought they were doing originally but I was surprised by a response today by Colnago-America and not their HQ in Italy. I will ask them to forward my case to HQ to see if they have any info regarding their European and Canadian models.

In the meantime keep sending my feedback! I really want to crack this case!
Cheers

Picchio Special

I would be surprised if Colnago has all the relevant - I'm highly skeptical that the record-keeping was all that great. So I don't necessarily think that's the final word. That said, it seemed like a bit of a longshot from the outset - though not out of the question - that it was a Colnago. So many builders of the era called out their frames via details cast into the lugs, etc., that the absence of those call-outs argues for a mid-range machine, possibly by a generic manufcaturer - i.e. maybe built for a bike shop brand. Doesn't mean it's not worth owning, or that it won't ride great.

jmlerch

Hey all,

This is what Colnago-America wrote back,

"...all serial numbers are recorded in Italy for every frame that is produced, whether or not it is made in the factory in Italy. The office in Italy looked into the serial number and the photos of the frame and they do not match any make or model that Colnago has produced. Furthermore, the only two places that Colnago bicycles are produced are in Italy and Taiwan. Even during the bike boom, they were still made in Italy. Colnago did not outsource their production of bicycles to anyone during that time period."

With that being said we can rule out Colnago.

@Picchio Special: Thanks for your feedback. Was it common that bike shops would create their own frames? If so around what era was that popular?

Also seeing as I do not want to be on a bike that misrepresents a good name/company I was planning on re-painting it. Two questions:
1. Would stripping the paint off of the bike reveal any hidden markings? Should I be on the look out for anything in particular other then the serial number?
2. If it was your bike would you have fun with the design and come up with your own name and colors? What would you do in my situation.

Thanks in advance!

Picchio Special

Colnago did outsource their production - albeit within Italy. I think it's also pretty well documented that there were some pretty iffy frames made in the low countries under some sort of licensing agreement with Colnago in the 80's. I'm sure they'd like you to believe otherwise - in fact, I have no doubt they believe it themselves. There are plenty of people who know the history of the production of Colnago bikes better than the folks who now work there. As far as I can tell, your bike doesn't have a serial number? Therefore, it of course doesn't match their serial numbers records. Colnago didn't even use serial numbers well into the 80's - so how could all the serial numbers be recorded? In other words, I do not think we can rule out Colnago. That would presume that Colnago is on top of these issues - and they're not. They're now trying to reclaim some kind of control of their legacy and history by being late to the party, as far as their older frames are concerned. As recently as 10 years ago, they wouldn't have even given a crap about their old frames or helping people identify them.
That said, I'm skeptical that your bike is a Colnago, and have been from the get-go. If it is, it's not a valuable for special one, so it's perhaps not even a relevant issue or one spending a ton of time exploring.
Bike shops didn't create gtheir own frames, necessarily, but they very commonly created their own brands and outsourced the production to someone who specialized in doing just that - such as BMZ or Billato, or even a local builder. That was true from at least the 70's on - possibly earlier. Chesini is a great example - it was originally a bike shop outsourced brand that eventually achieved wider recognition. In fact, Chesini is still a bike shop in the center of Verona to this day.
I doubt your going to find additional clues. I would do with the bike what you want to, at this point.

jmlerch

All incredibly great points. Thanks very much for explaining, in brief detail, the history! History fascinates me and so does cycling. To learn more about the history of this sport is a really great thing and I thank you all for putting in your feedback. I'm a graphic designer so I really appreciate great design I feel that this bike has that. It's unfortunate that we wont be able to attach a name to it but it opens up new doors as far as creativity is concerned and I'm looking forward to putting a new twist to this old frame.

While this thread is still somewhat alive what are your thoughts on the components? Handlebar and group set?

Bianchigirll 

The group is Nuovo Record right? great stuff was top of the line for decades. Cinelli bar/stem? still top notch.

Just a shot here any chance it ia Geurciotti? what is somebody stipped and painted or even just changed the decals? That may jive with the stem being pantographed.

Picchio Special

I've seen enough Guerciottis - even early 70's ones - to believe there would be more call-outs on the frame. Unless it was very third-tier - and even then, wouldn't you expect a star in the fork crown? In and of itself, the stem is no better indicator than the paint, IMO.

jmlerch

Well it's still worth a shot and I emailed Guerciotti. We'll see what they say. You never know. The handlebar is a 3TTT Guerciotti, Seat post and group set (NUOVO RECORD) Campagnolo. And it was mentioned that the forks were replaced. So I don't believe those are original.

I'll let you all know if Guerciotti gets back to me. If they can't verify it I'll put my design skills to work and come up with something creative. Expect another thread somewhere regarding design feedback. I'll be looking to use other company logos as reference if/when I create my own emblem/bike company name for this bike.

Henry III

Didn't Guerciotti's have a star cutout on the bottom bracket shell and various parts on the frame...brake bridge, lugs, fork crown and tangs? I don't think it's a Guerciotti. So how much did you drop on this "Colnottinago"?

jmlerch

Given my lack of knowledge at the time (and still) and the fact that this has just been realized... I paid waaaay to much. I feel embarrassed to say but $600.00 CAD... Major rookie mistake I know it now and lesson learned. So far this forum has educated me on a TON of information regarding vintage bikes not to mention the amount of research I've done over the past few months to better understand the sport.

Anyways If it isn't any type of make at least it will be a fun project to create an image and name for this bike. And it rides awesome so I can't really complain.

gomango

I've made many mistakes, some very expensive, with bicycles.

Try crashing a friend's custom Strong all-rounder one week after he received it on for size!

Just go enjoy the bicycle and ride the wheels off her.

EhGiOeS

It doesn't look like anyone is going to identify the frame. Here's my two cents. I am no expert, but I bought my first Colnago in 1973. The frame looks like early to mid "80's". The paint looks like Colnago early "90's". The frame is most likely Italian made by a craftsman. People can talk about mid level and low level, but people didn't put Nuovo Record on junk bikes. By the way the RD crank and hub lock nuts are date stamped. So what you do have is a very nice frame with paint you could not replace for $1000 the parts which would bring more than the purchase price. So enjoy Ed

jet sanchEz

Who can put a price on a great day of riding on a bike that you love? Throw in some sandwiches, a cold beer or two, a loved one and it is priceless.

jmlerch

Thanks Ed! That was much appreciated. Excited to know that this purchase wasn't a total bust. The fact that I'll never really know the true identity of this frame makes me want to give it a new look. Plus I've got to say that the paint job looks fairly new and nothing special up close. You can tell that the Colnago name was spray painted and not factory decals or even replicas just sprayed. Anyways looking forward to revamping this bad boy!

jet SanchEz you couldn't have said it better myself!

All the very best everyone.
Cheers
Jon

sauze

I don't know why, but when I saw the photos I thought 'Faggin' .

EhGiOeS

Hi Jon from about the late "80's" Colnago didn't use decals. The graphics were air brushed. If the Colnago script bothers you you can always make up stick ones to cover them. I think half the buzz of collecting is trying to identify the unknowns. You can try the English and Italian collector forums. Also Classic Rendezvous Forum. However it turns out you got a very nice bike at a fair price. Ed

Johnonaschwinn

Faggin used pantographs on the frame in a few spots. I do not think it is a Faggin either

753proguy

$600 is not awful. You got perhaps a $350 bike, plus a $250 education. I would suggest that the majority of 'repainted Colnagos" out there today are not Colnagos, so there are whole lot of possibilities for this kind of purchase to occur. If it fits you, isn't damaged (why was the fork replaced? usually due to a front-end crash, but not always), and rides nicely then no big deal, really. You will be a whole lot smarter next time, right? That's what matters now....