panthalassa

Howdy all-

I'm looking for a bit of help identifying a Paramount I've got. (I apologize in advance for any etiquette breach related to this being my first post on the forums).

I picked up a nice looking (if a bit dusty and surface-rusty) vintage Paramount at a flea market several years back. Of course I intended to restore it and make it lovely, but the fact that it was just a touch too large for me to ride took a good deal of wind out of my motivation sails. As such, it's been gathering dust in my basement. Now, however, I'm moving to Hawaii to pursue a PhD so I have to get rid of it. I'd like to know what I've got so I can both get what it's worth as well as get it to someone who will give it the love it needs.

Known:

(all the parts appear to be stock)
It's a yellow ("kool lemon", I believe) road frame (I estimate it to be in the size range of 58-60. Too Big For Me, at any rate), with the serial M71124 stamped into the left rear dropout. Fork and stay ends and forward lugs are chromed. No eyelets on the dropouts.
27" Weinmann wheelset with Campy high-flange hubs. Weinmann sidepull brakes and levers.
Cinelli stem & bars with Suntour bar-end shifters.
Campy Nuovo Record gruppo.
When I bought the bike, it had a Brooks B17 (I think) saddle on it, but despite me oiling the bejeezus out of it, the leather snapped in half after about two weeks of riding.

From all of this, and the research I've been able to do, I *think* it's a 1971 Chicago-made Paramount, model P-13. Does this seem right? Sadly, I don't think I've got the time or wherewithal to give it the restoration it clearly deserves. Although apart from a paint job (rust spots all appear to just be on the surface, and the chrome isn't pitted), all it really needs is to be reassembled.

Can anyone give a ballpark of what it might be worth, both as a frameset and parts-pile as well as in complete-bike form? I'm not looking to score a massive profit here, but it'd be nice to get a little circus-money to help with moving costs.

Thanks in advance! I can post up some photos if it'll help, but I'm not in a place to do that at the moment.

David Newton

Wrong forum, there is an appraisal forum right next to this one.
Good luck selling it.

rhenning

It is the 124th frame built in Dec of 1971 so it actually a 1972 model. Look at Ebay for prices and without pictures there is no way to give an estimate of worth. Roger

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

20 bux.

Scooper

It does sound like a December 1971 ('72 model year) P13-9 Road Racer in Kool Lemon. We need detailed photos to provide even a rough estimate of value.

I'll flag this thread and see if the moderators will move it to appraisals where it belongs.

Kactus

I second the request for photos. If the 27" wheels are original it sounds more like a P-10 to me. A Kool Lemon '72 Paramount (especially a P-13) definitely interests me.

Scooper

A P10 or P15 would have eyelets on the dropouts. OP says no eyelets.

Kactus

I missed that... thanks Scooper! Now I DEFINITELY want to see pictures.

Scooper

So do I.

Another detail that will tell us whether it's a P13 or P10/P15 is the rear brake cable. If it uses TT braze-ons, it's either a P10 or P15; the P13 uses three Campy cable clamps on the TT.

P13-9 Top Tube with Campagnolo cable clamps:



P15-9 Top Tube with rear brake cable braze-ons:

Kactus

I'm sure it's not your size Scooper!

Scooper

Heh heh.. I've got more than my share already.

panthalassa

Thanks for the replies (and the minimum of snark). Should I repost this in appraisals, or will the mods move it?
Anyway, here are some crappy photos. As you can see, the paint is not that great and there are rust spots, but I'm pretty sure they're on the surface. And the top tube has Campy cable clamps, rather than braze-ons.

Thanks again! Let me know if there are specific (or better) photos I should post.

Scooper

It's a P13-9. Do you have the fork?

Most folks would consider that very rough, and in the present condition without the correct build components would require a significant investment. Assuming you have the original fork, there are no dents and the frame and fork are straight, I'd guess it could sell for $300-$400 to the right buyer.

howsteepisit

He says he has al the parts, NR drivetrain, so I think more in the 400-450 range.

Kactus

The more photos you take, the better. It would also be better to take them with as high a resolution camera as you have, preferably outdoors in natural light and against a backround such as a plain white sheet.

panthalassa

Thanks again. I do have the fork and all the original parts. The components actually look better than the frame does, since I ran them through an ultrasonic. Everything is straight and functional, as far as I have been able to determine. I'll try to get out with the actual camera and take some real photos.

And as I said, I'm not looking for a huge score.

howsteepisit

So put it upon Craig's list for 800 and see what offers you get

Scooper

I agree that with the fork, wheels, and NR components it's probably worth $700 - $800 or so on CL, a little more on ebay.

You really should reassemble it as much as possible and take good, detailed, well lighted photos.

zukahn1 

I would say around $400 complete and rough and $700-800 properly put back together and ready to ride.

panthalassa

I've received a couple of PMs asking about more photos. My post count does not allow me to respond to PMs yet. I've been quite busy but I hope to take some photos and I'll post them up here when I do.

mparker326

How are your eBay skills? It will bring the most money parted out. Since it already taken apart, I would go that route. Otherwise you are going to have to spend money on items such as tires, cables, housing, bar tape that you will never recoup.

Easiest is to just make a deal with some of the folks on here who have sent you PM's. You won't make the most money but it will go to a good home and I am sure you will get a profit from your flea market find.