DMC707

After posting inquiries on values of things here and possible suggestions, --- i listed a few things on e bay

I sold a bicycle for 910, and some miscellaneous small parts for an additional 75

It does not seem that long ago that i have used myebay account, but the Paypal fees were around 30 bucks with ebay fees of 98

To top it off , there is a 21 day hold on the proceeds because i dont have an extensive enough selling track record. Guess you need to sell 25 items before the flood gates open -- even though i have been a member with great feedback for over a decade

Rant over

But this experience to me sheds some light on things on ebay that may seem a little overpriced. The seller is trying to recoup some of the ebay/Paypal tariff

I am listing the rest of my fleet on craigslist and hoping for the best - March is just around the corner

On the flip side, it does give a lot more exposure to higher dollared items - i doubt i could have gotten that much forthe bike locally

Spaghetti Legs 

It's been a few years since I sold anything on eBay, but when I looked recently, they drastically changed the fee structure. Now it looks like a straight 10% of the final total. I have mixed feelings on eBay. From the buyer standpoint, it's pretty rare to find a truly good deal. On the other hand it's relatively safe, much better than 8-10 years ago. I snapped up a Rossin Record recently that I thought was a legit seller, even though first time seller. It didn't work out, but got my money refunded within 24 hours.

miamijim

I've sold a lot of parts and bikes on Ebay. At the end of the day factor in 12% to cover Ebay and Paypal fees, it's just the cost of doing buisness.

the 'hold' on funds is make sure nobody is doing anything shady.

daf1009

Ebay and PayPal provide a service...and they do deserve to get paid for it. When I think about my real job, we want to make more than 10%...so...it does not seem out of line to me

CliffordK

I'm not sure how PayPal deals with credit cards, but if the buyer is paying by credit card, then someone has to also pay the bank. 1% to 3%. Where do you think all the "cash back"offers some from, the good will of the banks?

I certainly would consider cash for any local pickup sales, but it becomes complicated for sales that must be shipped.

RoadGuy

The whole eBay and PayPal System is rigged in favor of the Buyer now. New Sellers, whether they are new to eBay or just new to Selling on eBay are all subject to the 21+ day hold (depending on the category of the item sold). At one time eBay proposed to make the hold 180 days for some categories of products.

In the past there have been both dishonest Buyers and Dishonest Sellers. The current Feedback Scheme does not allow a Seller to post Negative FeedBack for any Buyer, regardless of what the Buyer does. Sellers have no idea of whether a Buyer is going to pay for an item, or send a fake payment, or send a scam payment from an account that he/she does not even own. eBay and PayPal get paid by the Seller, whether the Seller ever gets a penny. eBay doesn't even offer Seller Protection (where the Seller is reimbursed in the case of fraud) any more, they claim to police Buyers so that can't happened (too bad when it does).

This past year I had one case where the Buyer switched a pair of new/unused Shimano Ultegra 6403 brake levers that I sold for a pair of used/damaged ones. I could see from the photo that the Buyer supplies that they were not the same ones that I sold. eBay's Buyer Protection Plan has the Buyer return the item to the Seller, and the Seller end up paying all the fees, regardless of the terms the item was sold under (shipping both ways, eBay Fees, PayPal fees, and a return fee ) were all deducted from my PayPal account. All I got back was a pair of beat up used brake levers.

In a 2nd case now active, a Buyer bought and paid for a working, used laptop that needs some parts (battery, ac adapter, and hard drive). The ad specifically stated that the laptop was working, and showed photos of the laptop working with test parts installed that were not included (ad specifically states that test parts were installed to show the laptop was working for the ad, and would be removed before shipping). Laptop was sold for $30, plus shipping of $20. One week after the Buyer got the laptop, he claimed it was not as advertised, that it did not work, and the photos were deceiving. I directed him back to the ad text, and offered to help him locate the necessary parts from other Sellers on eBay. The Buyer demanded that I pay the return shipping and give him a full refund of the money already paid. This is more money than the laptop sold for. I refused, and the Buyer generated a chargeback with his credit card company, claiming that he never bought the laptop from eBay or authorized the payment for it by the credit card company. eBay closed the case, and PayPal charged my account $50, plus $50 for a service fee. The laptop was never returned, and I ended up losing (lost money taken by Paypal (laptop $30, shipping $20), paid for shipping $20, lost eBay fees $5, lost PayPal fees $1.50, lost PayPal chargeback fees $50.

And I can't issue negative feedback to the Buyer, although he posted negative feedback for me and he kept the laptop.

Sellers cannot refuse to accept PayPal from Buyers, and Sellers are not allowed to ask for cash payment even in the case that the Buyer is picking up (you need to go off eBay to discuss alternative payment methods with the Buyer). Furthermore, allowing a pickup is risky for the Seller, because eBay and PayPal will not recognize a delivery or pick up because it will not generate a delivery confirmation that they will accept. If a Buyer picks up in person, he could claim that he never got the item (and generate a chargeback with eBay and PayPal), and the Seller would be up the creek, even if the Buyer signed a delivery receipt.

In the case that the Buyer wants to pick up, it's better if the Seller posts in his ad for that in the case of Buyer Pick Up, that alternative payment methods are available. Tell the Buyer (off eBay) that cash payment is required for pick up. If you get cash from the Buyer at time of pick up (Buyer is protected), and get the Buyer to sign a delivery receipt, you are pretty much covered against eBay and PayPal. This is the only way.

eBay is supposed to allow you to use the shipping money before the 21 day hold is over to pay for shipping IF you use eBay fr shipping. If you are restricted to the 21-day hold, make sure that whatever you are selling has the shipping charge separate from the item selling amount (no free shipping), so you can pay for the shipping from your PayPal account, and are not paying out of pocket for shipping, while the money is "on hold".

Despite the fact that eBay and PayPal are advertising that you are getting a discount from regular USPS Rates if you pay through the site, you are getting the same price that you would pay if you go directly to the USPS site and pay for shipping on line.

DMC707

Not sure if you've ever worked for straight commission before, but 10% is a very high average commission in a lot of industries

CliffordK

I've had one E-Bay seller ship a touch-screen flat screen monitor to me in an empty box with no packing, and put the power supply sitting on top of the glass screen.

You can imagine the condition it was in when it arrived.

Then he claimed that was how the shipping company (post office?) recommended it be shipped.

I had several hoops to jump through, and I was supposed to get a repair estimate... and eventually had my claim dismissed. I have always wondered if the seller had swapped a broken item, and then shipped it in such a way that it would appear to have been broken in transit.

I've had items insured by the post office, then arrive damaged, and the post office claim that the packing was insufficient, so the claim was denied.

It is not uncommon for sellers to present photos such that defects are hidden, or difficult to detect. And, who knows, perhaps accidents occur.

So much on E-Bay is based on a binary assessment of Good/Bad feedback. Many cases just don't quite fit into either.

• Shoes Purchased. One Cleat Plate Missing (no visible from photos). Not a big deal, but annoying, and an additional $5 to $10 expense. Seller then promised to ship missing part, then it never arrived.
• Adjustable Wrench purchased. Photos all show it with jaws open. When one closes them, it is obvious that they are bent.
• Bike Leg Light works for about a month, then dies. Obviously made cheaply.
• Stock photos. Part "substituted" with a part the seller considers equivalent, but the buyer may not.

The positive only feedback from sellers is a bit silly. However, no doubt the feedback system was being abused by sellers that would respond to negative feedback (justified or not) with negative feedback.

DMC707

Paypal charges a fee to the seller for using the service that is about 3% which covers this i assume


Also adding, in general --- this is not my first go-round as an ebay seller, although from the tone of my opening thread it would seem so. I have sold far more than 25 items on there, just not in any consecutive calendar year ---- the biggest thing i sell is parts from my motocross bike -- every other year, i get a new motocrosser -- take off a variety of stock parts and replace them with better performing aftermarket parts to use
At the end of the year, the motorcycle is restored back to stock and it is sold, ---- leaving me to sell the miscellaneous aftermarket stuff on ebay after the fact.
I realize its not much compared to others, but these new(ish) policies are bothersome, and i do not recall the tariff ever being 10%

Oh well ---

CliffordK

10% markup would be reasonable with specific labor charges.
Say you were going to start an E-Bay reselling business.
Take items in. Photograph, write up a web page. And ask for a 10% commission in return.

Or, perhaps an auctioneer who is rousing a crowd, and speaking a mile a minute.

On the other hand, for the millions items on E-Bay, the company has provided the web hosting service, but their customer/seller interactions are minimal. I have no doubt they could still make money with a ½% mark-up.

RoadGuy

eBay is not profitable. It generates millions of dollars in sales, but little profit. Which is why so many CEOs have come and gone, why so much of the workforce has been laid off, and why eBay keeps revamping itself (trying to find a profitable formula).

And, there are already lots and lots of services posting items on eBay for owners for a commission (typically 25-35%). Like Pawn Shops this a a way for thieves to get rid of hot items with little or no risk.

miamijim

It's been higher....

RoadGuy

FeedBack is getting abused by both sides.

As a Seller, how would you like to sell something, and get paid with a bad check, and not be able to do a single thing about it?

Or how about being paid from a PayPal Account, and then have the Buyer claim that he never authorized the purchase on his eBay or PayPal Account, and you lost the item, the shipping fees, the eBay and PayPal fees, and have to pay a PayPal chargeback fee? And there nothing you can do about it.

Or sell a brand new printer or set of brake levers, and the Buyer returns broken, used items instead of the ones you sent? And, again there is nothing you can do about it.

Or a Buyer runs the price of a $100 laptop up to $10,000, and you never hear from him? That's a $1,000 fee to eBay. Good luck trying to get the $1,000 charge off your monthly invoice before eBay charges your charge card.

randyjawa 

I got tired of the increasing imbalance between seller and buyer. I lost money, unfairly, due to Ebay's buyer protection program. Now, don't get me wrong...

It takes guts to send money to a complete stranger, with the hopes of getting what you expect. Not a wrong, or broken or misrepresented item in a poorly packaged and, ultimately, damaged condition. Ebay needs to protect the buyer. But Ebay needs to protect the buyer, also. And, in my opinion, they have failed to do so in recent years.

I have not used Ebay in a couple of years now, and for good reason. I don't have to. That said, if you want top dollar for a high end bike, Ebay is the most sensible way to go. Again, my opinion.

Lucky for me, I am keeping the five, nope six, bikes that I have left. Forgot about the Bianchi I just bought...

RoadGuy

PayPay get the 3% from the Seller when the money is deposited to the Seller's PayPal Account. PayPal also collects interest on the money that they have on hold.

PayPal is holding almost $1K of your money (paying no no interest) for the next three weeks, on a single transaction. And, loaning it out at 17-22% (APR) as a credit card issuer. While you are leaving the money in your PayPal Account, they are making interest on the money. When you want to move the money to your regular bank account, there is a three-four day delay, or if you are paying the money to someone, there is a three or four day delay. What do you think is happening during this period? Do you think it really takes three or four days to effect the transfer? No, PayPal is collecting interest on the money.

They are doing millions or billions of dollars of business this way every day. The 3% is a fraction of the money they are making.

daf1009

But...that is not "selling commission" for a company...that is their basic revenue line...and it is quite small for that...

lostarchitect 

Another thread to complain about ebay?

I really like Ebay as a buyer. I can find pretty much whatever I want, and usually for a reasonable price. If I can't find it, I can wait and it usually pops up eventually. I'm glad ebay protects people from fraud and damage. It seems to work really well, as far as I can see.

RoadGuy

They aren't getting 10%, they are getting much more.

It's the death of 10000 cuts.

10% of the final valuation Fee.

10% of the shipping costs.

3% of the credit card amount from the credit card company.

3% of the amount paid to the Seller

Incremental Daily Interest on the money in your PayPal Account, and the money that you are transferring to and from your bank and payments to others.

Fees being charged to Buyers and Sellers for converting currency.

17-22% Interest being collected for the use of your money from PayPal credit card holders.

eBay is good for Buyers and bad for Sellers, which is why the number of Sellers on eBay is dropping (along with eBay's bottom line profit). For eBay to be successfully, it needs to strike a fair balance between Sellers and Buyers.

At the very least FeedBack needs to be restored to make it easier for Sellers to weed out Scammers and Flakey Buyers to reduce selling costs and losses.

daf1009

On the first point...yes, 10%ish there...
Second point...this was because sellers started charging EXTRAORDINARY shipping and no charge on the actual value, thus bypassing the valuation fee
Third point...this actually comes out and goes TO the credit card company...
Fourth point...not sure what this point is...I do not have this charge
Fifth point...just like a bank...if you take the money out, they will not get incremental
Sixth point...just like a bank...
Seventh point...only if you run a balance...just like a credit card

Eight point...on the balance...I agree with you on this one...they do need a better balance between buyers and sellers...

I am not trying to defend them (much)...but...guess what? Is there really a better alternative at this point? Yes, we can buy and sell here...with some safety...but...eBay does provide a relatively safe environment to transact between strangers...they are also, guess what....a FOR PROFIT company...it is always interesting to me when people (in general) look at companies and "pooh-pooh" them for trying maximize their profits...that is what they are there for...little thing called...oh yeah...capitalism...I think...of course, I have been wrong before and will be wrong again...

KonAaron Snake 

I have problems with ebay's relationships with PayPal and craigslist. I think their selling fees are actually quite reasonable for what they're doing.

RoadGuy

You have no clue about what you are paying as a Seller, do you?

You haven't noticed that PayPal takes 3% out of every dollar that they collect for you (before you ever get it)? That's besides the fees that eBay is charging to your Seller Account.

An example of this would be a item that sold for $100 on eBay with a shipping charge of let's say $15. The Buyer send you $115. PayPal puts into your account $111.55, puts on hold $111.55 in your account. Where do you think the other $3.45 went? then you check your eBay Seller Account and notice that eBay has invoiced you $10.00 for the Final Valuation Fee on the auction, and $1.50 for the Shipping Fee.

When you go to the bank to withdraw cash, does your bank debit your account on the spot, and tell you to come back in four working days to get the cash? That's what happens when you transfer money from PayPal to your bank. And, no, when you withdraw money at your bank you get it in the hand on the spot.

When you deposit a check in the bank, does it collect interest (on an interest bearing account) from the first day, even though you may not be able to access more than $100-$300 of the amount for two or three working days (depending on where the check was drawn on)? No, in the case of a interested bearing account, your bank is required to pay incremental interest from the first day after you make the deposit.

If a friend gives you check drawn on the same bank that you bank on, is there a delay of three-four working days before you can access the money? No, your bank does not freeze or put a hold on money that is transferred from one account to another within the bank.

oddjob2

You must be wealthy to consider about $950 million in Q4 net income "not profitable."

EBay Announces Plans To Shed Jobs, Units In Q4 Earnings Report - Forbes

Sure, they are restructuring, but that's to make Carl Icahn happy. Also they are spinning off paypal, in part to better compete with Apple pay.

Head to Head: How PayPal and Apple Pay Compare - ABC News

cale

Ranting about the misfortune of having voluntarily used a service. Oh boy...

daf1009

I had planned on no longer replying...but...thank you for accusing me of having no clue...actually I track my money quite well, thank you...as you have no clue what I do or do not do. I just simply am not as upset about a business being a business as you obviously are. If you do not want to use eBay/PayPal...your prerogative...I actually do quite well with them...and, yes, I am actually ok with them making money...what a concept!!!

As I said in my earlier post, you are right on one account...and that is that they are too heavily biased toward the buyer...if they are not careful, they will have no sellers...and it takes both.

Also, by the way...I worked for a number of years for a bank...and, actually, for the most part...many of the things that you accuse eBay of, the banks do as well...there can be delays and holds...just like with PayPal...but...I digress again...all stop here...

Back to bikes...more fun...

RoadGuy

Yes, banks can borrow money from the Federal Reserve for that little. And they pay you 1% for the money that they hold in your savings account.

My point is that PayPal is lending the money your money out for 17-22%, while paying you nothing.

Unfortunately, that is not what they charge you when you use their charge card to buy something.