Any info appreciated: Ratty Bartali 4-speed (!)
06-22-15, 02:16 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
Any info appreciated: Ratty Bartali 4-speed (!)
Interesting left-overs, but the bike has been through changes.
It is a 4-speed bike with one Campagnolo gear lever and no front derailleur.
Regina Gran Sport Corsa 4-sprocket freewheel
The wheels are alloy "Bartali-Nisi" on alloy Campagnolo hubs.
The head set, chain ring (single) and crank assembly are by Magistroni.
Lugs look fancy......
22-inch bike but very light. Any ideas of the age or history ??
Binky
It is a 4-speed bike with one Campagnolo gear lever and no front derailleur.
Regina Gran Sport Corsa 4-sprocket freewheel
The wheels are alloy "Bartali-Nisi" on alloy Campagnolo hubs.
The head set, chain ring (single) and crank assembly are by Magistroni.
Lugs look fancy......
22-inch bike but very light. Any ideas of the age or history ??
Binky
06-22-15, 04:15 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,800
Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times
in
225 Posts
No idea, but I like.
06-22-15, 04:17 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,262
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 3,336 Times
in
2,176 Posts
shell is Agrati "BRIANZA"
headlugs appear same pattern as those found on the Windsor Carrera Sport.
thanks for sharing this great find.
cannot quite make out the mech. gian robert?
headlugs appear same pattern as those found on the Windsor Carrera Sport.
thanks for sharing this great find.
cannot quite make out the mech. gian robert?
06-22-15, 05:58 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317
Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times
in
313 Posts
Interesting bike!
06-23-15, 07:48 AM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
"Great find" ... Seriously.... is that sarcasm or serious ?
Questions unanswered:
How old is this relic of ancient cycling and what is it worth as is ?
It needs so much to make it even look like a decent bike again --- is anybody likely to want it if I do offer it up ?
Or should I just strip it for parts ? The frame is light and the Emilio Bozzi faux-Nervex lugs are cute - but is it worth restoring ?
The bike is complete, ugly, and rideable just the way it is but is there any reasonable likelihood that I'd be able to get more than what I paid for it ($10 Canadian, or $8.85 US) if I put it on eBay or the local Buy'n'Sell ?
Binky
06-23-15, 09:53 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,517
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 1,761 Times
in
634 Posts
The style of single DT shifter and 4 speed drive train with nicer cottered crank would indicate it is from the early 50's. I would guess in current condition a but rough cosmeticaly with some none original stuff, fixed up a bit to be rideable I would say $200-250 to the right buyer. Likely not big market for a bike like this not old or nice enough to a be a serious collectors bike, but old and interesting enough one probly wouldn't us it as a rider.
06-23-15, 10:17 AM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
The style of single DT shifter and 4 speed drive train with nicer cottered crank would indicate it is from the early 50's. I would guess in current condition a but rough cosmeticaly with some none original stuff, fixed up a bit to be rideable I would say $200-250 to the right buyer. Likely not big market for a bike like this not old or nice enough to a be a serious collectors bike, but old and interesting enough one probly wouldn't us it as a rider.
Thanks for the advice.
That sounds good to me.
I'll take some better pictures, chase the spiders off it, catalog the parts, and see about listing it on eBay with an opening bid of $75 to see if there is any interest in it.
The bike is sufficiently obscure and I am close enough to Toronto that I may be able to attract a local collector of vintage junk.
Binky
06-23-15, 03:27 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
Binky
Last edited by Binky; 06-23-15 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Spelling
06-24-15, 02:29 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,262
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 3,336 Times
in
2,176 Posts
agree with zukahn1 regarding dating.
had been thinking 1952-54 but am certainly no expert on this time.
crown is an agrati model not listed in the one catalogue i have. suspect the tool has a plug allowing them to insert a name or logo without having to make a new tooling for each one. plain appearing version of crown would have the gates for the plug ground away prior to polishing so no one would know it is there.
here is a closeup of an acer-mex built machine (windsor carrera sport model am-3) with same or very similar head lugs & a similar crown:
curious that someone seems to have bartali's seat binder collar on upside down. perhaps they were working on the machine inverted.
Binky -
if you are able to post some non-flash images in better lighting you might get some additional response from other readers.
noted we have not as yet heard from iab on this. am sure he would be able to shed some light...and enlighten us all!
had been thinking 1952-54 but am certainly no expert on this time.
crown is an agrati model not listed in the one catalogue i have. suspect the tool has a plug allowing them to insert a name or logo without having to make a new tooling for each one. plain appearing version of crown would have the gates for the plug ground away prior to polishing so no one would know it is there.
here is a closeup of an acer-mex built machine (windsor carrera sport model am-3) with same or very similar head lugs & a similar crown:
curious that someone seems to have bartali's seat binder collar on upside down. perhaps they were working on the machine inverted.
Binky -
if you are able to post some non-flash images in better lighting you might get some additional response from other readers.
noted we have not as yet heard from iab on this. am sure he would be able to shed some light...and enlighten us all!
Last edited by juvela; 06-24-15 at 02:31 AM. Reason: check
06-24-15, 05:45 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 2,982
Bikes: LESS than I did a year ago!
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Thank you for the reply and information.
"Great find" ... Seriously.... is that sarcasm or serious ?
Questions unanswered:
How old is this relic of ancient cycling and what is it worth as is ?
It needs so much to make it even look like a decent bike again --- is anybody likely to want it if I do offer it up ?
Or should I just strip it for parts ? The frame is light and the Emilio Bozzi faux-Nervex lugs are cute - but is it worth restoring ?
The bike is complete, ugly, and rideable just the way it is but is there any reasonable likelihood that I'd be able to get more than what I paid for it ($10 Canadian, or $8.85 US) if I put it on eBay or the local Buy'n'Sell ?
Binky
"Great find" ... Seriously.... is that sarcasm or serious ?
Questions unanswered:
How old is this relic of ancient cycling and what is it worth as is ?
It needs so much to make it even look like a decent bike again --- is anybody likely to want it if I do offer it up ?
Or should I just strip it for parts ? The frame is light and the Emilio Bozzi faux-Nervex lugs are cute - but is it worth restoring ?
The bike is complete, ugly, and rideable just the way it is but is there any reasonable likelihood that I'd be able to get more than what I paid for it ($10 Canadian, or $8.85 US) if I put it on eBay or the local Buy'n'Sell ?
Binky
If you do decide to sell it...let me know...
06-24-15, 06:15 AM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
I would easily help you triple your money on this interesting bike! Seriously, yes, I think it is worth restoring to some degree...keeping the original paint/decals/etc. This seems to be a bit rare and would be a nice add to a unique collection.
If you do decide to sell it...let me know...
If you do decide to sell it...let me know...
I am letting you know.
I did put the Bartali bike onto eBay Canada for $75 and at least one person was interested enough to bid on it.
In its present cosmetic condition, that is really all I can expect - and I hope it goes to a good home.
It will join the multitude of other rusty bikes roaming the streets of Toronto.
Binky
06-24-15, 08:54 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 2,982
Bikes: LESS than I did a year ago!
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Thanks for the kind words, advice, and encouragement.
I am letting you know.
I did put the Bartali bike onto eBay Canada for $75 and at least one person was interested enough to bid on it.
In its present cosmetic condition, that is really all I can expect - and I hope it goes to a good home.
It will join the multitude of other rusty bikes roaming the streets of Toronto.
Binky
I am letting you know.
I did put the Bartali bike onto eBay Canada for $75 and at least one person was interested enough to bid on it.
In its present cosmetic condition, that is really all I can expect - and I hope it goes to a good home.
It will join the multitude of other rusty bikes roaming the streets of Toronto.
Binky
06-24-15, 09:45 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
Hmmmm....
If my memory serves me well, this Forum has specific rules that forbid posting links to eBay listings in forum messages....
But if you go on eBay Canada and do a search for Bartali you will find it.
(Bartali 4-Speed Road Bike from the 1950s)
Send me a message off the Forum & I'll send you a link to the auction.
fat_idle_bastard(at)yahoo(dot)ca
Binky
06-25-15, 06:22 AM
#14
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
Strangely, a search for 'Bartali' on Ebay did not turn this up; I had to go to Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay and try it there.
Item number 151723651890.
I respectfully differ from those who suggest early 50's. I see nothing here to suggest a date before, I don't know, the mid 60's. Nuovo Tipo hubs and Valentino Extra derailleurs were often paired together, so I would assume these are original to the bike. The only feature that suggests an earlier date is the four cog freewheel, but I'm not sure when those disappeared from the market.
Is there a serial number? I'd look on the drive side (right side) of the seat tube.
"26 inch tires" does not really tell us anything. There are about five different sizes of rim, ranging from 559 mm to 597 mm diameter, that are all commonly called "26 inch." Any serious bidder will want to know what size these are (for example, 590-35, AKA 26x1 3/8, AKA 650A).
I think putting it on ebay was the right thing to do.
Item number 151723651890.
I respectfully differ from those who suggest early 50's. I see nothing here to suggest a date before, I don't know, the mid 60's. Nuovo Tipo hubs and Valentino Extra derailleurs were often paired together, so I would assume these are original to the bike. The only feature that suggests an earlier date is the four cog freewheel, but I'm not sure when those disappeared from the market.
Is there a serial number? I'd look on the drive side (right side) of the seat tube.
"26 inch tires" does not really tell us anything. There are about five different sizes of rim, ranging from 559 mm to 597 mm diameter, that are all commonly called "26 inch." Any serious bidder will want to know what size these are (for example, 590-35, AKA 26x1 3/8, AKA 650A).
I think putting it on ebay was the right thing to do.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
06-25-15, 06:38 AM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 873
Bikes: Too, too many....
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times
in
57 Posts
Strangely, a search for 'Bartali' on Ebay did not turn this up; I had to go to Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay and try it there.
Item number 151723651890.
I respectfully differ from those who suggest early 50's. I see nothing here to suggest a date before, I don't know, the mid 60's. Nuovo Tipo hubs and Valentino Extra derailleurs were often paired together, so I would assume these are original to the bike. The only feature that suggests an earlier date is the four cog freewheel, but I'm not sure when those disappeared from the market.
Is there a serial number? I'd look on the drive side (right side) of the seat tube.
"26 inch tires" does not really tell us anything. There are about five different sizes of rim, ranging from 559 mm to 597 mm diameter, that are all commonly called "26 inch." Any serious bidder will want to know what size these are (for example, 590-35, AKA 26x1 3/8, AKA 650A).
I think putting it on ebay was the right thing to do.
Item number 151723651890.
I respectfully differ from those who suggest early 50's. I see nothing here to suggest a date before, I don't know, the mid 60's. Nuovo Tipo hubs and Valentino Extra derailleurs were often paired together, so I would assume these are original to the bike. The only feature that suggests an earlier date is the four cog freewheel, but I'm not sure when those disappeared from the market.
Is there a serial number? I'd look on the drive side (right side) of the seat tube.
"26 inch tires" does not really tell us anything. There are about five different sizes of rim, ranging from 559 mm to 597 mm diameter, that are all commonly called "26 inch." Any serious bidder will want to know what size these are (for example, 590-35, AKA 26x1 3/8, AKA 650A).
I think putting it on ebay was the right thing to do.
The ONLY markings on the rims are "Bartali-Nisi" - so no way to tell the actual size from that, and there are mis-matched 26-inch tires on it the bike.
So far, I have one bid for $75. I am hopeful that it will get at least one more bid.
I put it on eBay Canada with local pickup only, so I do not think you would be able to find it on the American eBay site.
Binky
06-25-15, 06:49 AM
#16
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
No numbers on the tires?
Ebay with local pickup only, well... I understand, but in all likelihood the buyer is going to try to get you to ship it anyway. That's always what happens to me, anyway. I suggest you face the fact that you will need to box it up, and expect the buyer to pay for shipping.
Ebay with local pickup only, well... I understand, but in all likelihood the buyer is going to try to get you to ship it anyway. That's always what happens to me, anyway. I suggest you face the fact that you will need to box it up, and expect the buyer to pay for shipping.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
danoftheville
Classic & Vintage
6
06-05-15 02:18 PM
bicyclebradley
Classic & Vintage
13
12-11-14 09:36 AM
flypaca
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
1
06-27-12 06:19 AM
