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Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

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Old 02-17-17, 01:19 AM   #1
GuerciottiDude
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Just bought this old Guerciotti. How old is it and what's it worth?

I just bought this cool Guerciotti. All the parts (except the back derailleur) were replaced with 7400 series dura-ace components. The front fork was repainted with a black powder coat because of some rust issues.

My two questions are:

1. How old is the frame?
2. What's a rough valuation of this bike?

Thanks!
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Old 02-17-17, 09:13 AM   #2
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1. Not the original fork, so a close inspection for crash damage needed.
2. No original components, so lost that originality for buyers where that matters.
3. Cosmetic issues, including rust on the chrome.
4. Doubt that rear derailleur works well with the 8s DA shifter, so it will need to be replaced with a DA 74xx series RD. (Is that shifting a 6s rear?)

So at this point it's a nice Italian framed rider, updated with STI, but not much else as a selling point. Once cleaned up and serviced, shifting correctly, that puts it anywhere, depending on your market, from $250 to $400. But it's going to take some work and $ to get there. If you're looking for a profit, I'd part it out - probably even separate the fork from the frame.

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Old 02-17-17, 10:01 AM   #3
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In your other thread, you'd asked about the tubing decal. This one is an older decal for Columbus, before all the "flavors" came out.
Only two "flavors" widely marketed then, SL & SP. This size frame: likely Columbus SL. Larger ones would be SL/SP mix or all SP.
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Old 02-23-17, 03:20 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by exxongraftek View Post
In your other thread, you'd asked about the tubing decal. This one is an older decal for Columbus, before all the "flavors" came out.
Only two "flavors" widely marketed then, SL & SP. This size frame: likely Columbus SL. Larger ones would be SL/SP mix or all SP.
That's what I was thinking. When did the flavors of Columbus emerge? I'm thinking mid 80's by the latest.
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Old 02-23-17, 09:23 AM   #5
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The Portacatena dropouts were available from the 1978 model year to at least the 1983 model year and possibly 1984. However, the presence of recessed brake bolts limit the oldest date to circa 1981. Guerrciotti has introduced the front derailleur hanger, on the top models, by at least 1983. So, assuming it isn't a tre-tubi or lower frame, it would appear to be circa 1981-982, based on frame characteristics.

Columbus changed their decal style for the 1978 model year, when they introduced KL, Aelle and Zeta. This is the pre-1978 decal. While it's conceivable that Guerciotti had some old stock lying around and/or were not fastidious in rotating stock, the odds of such a decal still being in use as late 1981-1982 seems unlikely. The decal vintage is definitely in contradiction with the frame characteristics.
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Old 02-23-17, 12:17 PM   #6
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...However, the presence of recessed brake bolts limit the oldest date to circa 1981. ...
Is this for all road bikes? Seems like I've seen recessed brake bolts on older bike frames, though they may have been misidentified or drilled out, I guess.
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Old 02-23-17, 02:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Portacatena dropouts were available from the 1978 model year to at least the 1983 model year and possibly 1984. However, the presence of recessed brake bolts limit the oldest date to circa 1981. Guerrciotti has introduced the front derailleur hanger, on the top models, by at least 1983. So, assuming it isn't a tre-tubi or lower frame, it would appear to be circa 1981-982, based on frame characteristics.

Columbus changed their decal style for the 1978 model year, when they introduced KL, Aelle and Zeta. This is the pre-1978 decal. While it's conceivable that Guerciotti had some old stock lying around and/or were not fastidious in rotating stock, the odds of such a decal still being in use as late 1981-1982 seems unlikely. The decal vintage is definitely in contradiction with the frame characteristics.
I suspect the frame has had the brake bolt holes reamed out to accept recessed bolts. My vote is a 1978 frame.
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Old 02-23-17, 04:15 PM   #8
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Is this for all road bikes? Seems like I've seen recessed brake bolts on older bike frames, though they may have been misidentified or drilled out, I guess.
They may be older but I haven't seen any confirmed cases. The first time the option appears in a Campagnolo catalogue is the Olympic catalogue. It isn't in catalogue #17a, which was released for the autumn 1977 trade shows and represents 1978 model year product. So, even if Campagnolo had introduced the option prior to the Olympic catalogue, the earliest they should be, would be the 1979 model year. Also, I have a 1978 road test on a Guerciotti and it definitely used exposed brake bolts and nuts.

I've seen recessed brake bolts in a few 1981 catalogues from brands like Bianchi and Basso. However, they don't appear in the 1981 retail components catalogues, that I have, though there was an OMAS Ti upgrade kit with titanium recessed bolts and nuts available in 1981. Looking at old race photos, I haven't been able to pick out anything prior to 1981 that is definitely recessed bolt.

You can't simply drill out a brake bridge to fit a recessed bolt. The old tubular bridges won't take the brake torque without distorting. It either has to be a cast bridge or have a insert to distribute the torque, much the same as double eyelets in tubular rims.

The bottom line is that I can't confirm their existence prior to 1981 and the evidence is pretty solid that they weren't available in 1978. Still, 1979 or 1980 is a possibility.

BTW, I should point out that the observations are restricted to Italian and Campagnolo equipped bicycles. Shimano had the option available at least as early as 1980 and possibly 1979.
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Old 02-23-17, 08:50 PM   #9
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I read on this site a lot more then I post. And real info, based on catalogs, race photos, experience, FACTS, is why I love this forum.

Thanks T-Mar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Portacatena dropouts were available from the 1978 model year to at least the 1983 model year and possibly 1984. However, the presence of recessed brake bolts limit the oldest date to circa 1981. Guerrciotti has introduced the front derailleur hanger, on the top models, by at least 1983. So, assuming it isn't a tre-tubi or lower frame, it would appear to be circa 1981-982, based on frame characteristics.

Columbus changed their decal style for the 1978 model year, when they introduced KL, Aelle and Zeta. This is the pre-1978 decal. While it's conceivable that Guerciotti had some old stock lying around and/or were not fastidious in rotating stock, the odds of such a decal still being in use as late 1981-1982 seems unlikely. The decal vintage is definitely in contradiction with the frame characteristics.
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