Jantaras

Hello,

I found this frame and some parts in local "CL" in Northern Europe. Price was about 50 USD. Never heard of Piave, looks like quite a rare model (at least in this part of the world). I found some info in Classic Rendezvous and BF about Piave, but the information is quite scarce about the models/original parts.
If though it is like this bike, but this has different lugs.
Ciclo Piave 1970 bicycle

Unfortunately the previuos owner has sanded most of the (original?) paint and the chrome has also been damaged... At least there were some chrome on chainstay and maybe on the front lugs, not sure about the fork, it is badly sanded...
The frame without the fork weighs 2250 gr, fork 790 gr. BB shell is 70 mm in width and right hand threaded on both sides, looks like italian. Dropouts and fork ends are Campagnolo. Frame number 10170. Rear spacing about 122 mm.

It came with a mix of parts:
Campy Nuovo record RD,
Huret FD and shifters,
brake levers are maybe Universal or Weinmann,
Universal brake calipers,
no name on BB.
No idea about the headset, it has no markings except for three stars on one of the cups, any thoughts about the manufacturer?
Stem is very short, model is NM??? Original to the frame??
Campagnolo hubs, Nisi rims, 4 speed Regina Oro freewheel.
Nervar Sport cottered cranks.

What could be the original equipment for this bike? Any ideas about the year of manufacture (I thought about 60's-70's, but it has downtube shifter braze-ons, maybe they were added later?)
What could be the tubing, Columbus, Falk? Lug manufacturer?

A lot of time and money to spend, but I thought of keeping it, have to repaint and restore at least to period correct parts. What could be it's worth in repainted condition with original/period correct parts?

All information will be appreciated, thanks!

juvela

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The rear mech is the most glaringly non-original fitting. Likely did not exist when machine constructed. Original would have been a Huret. Note that shift lever braze-on is consistent with Huret, not Campag. Brake levers are Universal; brake system looks original. Chainset likely original.

Appears some manner of mid-liner, one to two models up from bottom.

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https://www.foxgalleria.com/bici/piave/index.html

https://www.kijiji.it/annunci/bicicl...-1969/59496732

https://www.kijiji.it/annunci/bicicl...piave/71773013

https://www.kijiji.it/annunci/bicicl...-del/110101910

https://www.ebay.it/itm/151957591151?rmvSB=true

https://paramanubrio.blogspot.com/201...iave-1958.html

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Chombi1 

Love those spear point style chromed lugs on that frame.
It should look fantastic once it's restored with new paint and a good polishing of those chromed lugs.
You can tell it's a good quality frame from the clean, chiseled shaped stay ends at the rear dropouts.

T-Mar

The rear dropouts suggest circa 1972-1977. This is interesting because it combines a Huret lever boss with a Campagnolo dropout, at time when Huret rear derailleurs were not compatible with a Campagnolo hanger stop. Unless the boss was added later, this suggests a custom build, which complicates determining OEM spec.


Regarding the tubeset, based on the apparent era, the most likely candidates would be Columbus, Falck and Reynolds. The seat post diameter will be a good indicator of the grade of tubeset. The steerer tube of the fork may have a manufacturer's logo or name. Also, since the frame is largely devoid of paint, I'd strip the remaining paint and closely examine the ends of the tubes. Most manufacturers stamped one end of a tube with their name or logo, so the builder would know which end had the long butt for cutting to length.

juvela

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Huret offered an adaptor kit for fitting one of their rear mechs to a "patte Italienne."



(1973-74 catalogue page)

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Jantaras

Thanks for responses!
Why would they use French parts on Italian bike? If they wanted to reduce costs, Ofmega and Gipiemme were probably available?
Can't find any markings about manufarcturer, will try after stripping the remaing paint...
Any thoughts about headset's manufacturer? And what is that stem, I have never seen thas short on aracing/touring bike...

Jantaras

The seat tube is not perfectly round, I have measured from about 26,5 to 27,4 mm in diameter. Looks like 26,8 or 27,0 to me... Original seatpost is missing.

juvela

Huret gear ensembles are fairly common on low to mid level Italian machines of the 1960's and 1970's. They work better than the bottom end Campag. Depending on cycle's acutal date of manufacture there may well have been no OFMEGA or Gipiemme gear ensembles at the time.

Doubt stem could be original to bike.

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Jantaras

Any thougts about the manufacturer of the headset? Who used these stars? Bearings are missing, what could be the apropriate size, 5/32" maybe?

juvela

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From the contour of the races I would try first 3/16" ball. Or it may be 5/32" and me eyes are just bad...

Cannot recall seeing the three stars marking previously. Will be interested to read the comments of others. Must be one rare headset.

Have you learned any more about the cycle from your explorations?

Thanks for the update.

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Jantaras

Looks like there are five stars, one of them is damaged witht rust or something like that. Did not find any similar headsets on Velobase...

There is at least two nail-like rods inside the frame tubes, one near the BB shell and other near the seat tube and top tube junction, thought it was a way to attach lugs while brazing, maybe?
Also seller said he acquirred this bike from some dude who aquired it from one professional rider (who was also participating in Grand Tours some time ago). Couldn't figure out was it rider's training bike or not....
Thats about it. I'll assemble the bike as is and try it. I'd like to learn how to paint with the paint sprayer (I'm like that ), so it will be my future (paiting) project.

juvela

The rods are a construction technique termed "pinning" or "pinned." A means to hold things in place when ready for the torch.

Regarding headset - checked VB as well as in addition to other venues. A couple possibilities came to mind...

at one time there was an Italian cycle marque called Stella, could have been produced for them

WAY-Assauto of Asti made headsets. another product of theirs was pedals and they had a series with rubber or plastic treads which was called Stella. conceivable they may have had a Stella model headset as well.

as to the stars themselves - it appears from photos that they may not be simple five-pointed affairs but that the two upper lateral points may have "appendages." this may just be a vestige of the strike or it may be part of the symbol. you could have a gander to decide and/or post a closeup image of one of them.

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T-Mar

Pinning was a common method used by builders to hold the frame together without the use of a jig, while brazing. Advocates believed that jigs held a frame too rigidly and resulted in stresses being built into the frame. Conversely, a pinned frame was allowed to expand and contract naturally during the brazing process and was therefore stress free and less prone to failure.

Offhand, I don't recognize the headset but earlier you asked about the stem. It appears to be an Ambrosio or 3ttt Gran Prix.

juvela

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Here is a 1950's era Sport (town) bike exhibiting the same headlug add-on point, head emblem and fork crown as the subject machine:









Pedals are Way-Assauto Stella Sport.

paramanubrio: Risultati di ricerca per piave

(scroll down)

Marque still in use in Australia:

So I got one of PricePoint's "Piave" bikes..

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himespau 

I wonder if a thick powder coat (usually thought of as a bad thing that obscures frame details), would cover most of those scratches when the previous owner tried to scrape the paint off the frame.

juvela

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Here is another example bearing some similarities to yours.



Gallery:

BICI BICICLETTA EPOCA VINTAGE CICLO PIAVE SPECIALE EROICA CAMPAGNOLO | eBay

Earlier than may appear at first glance. Assume a redo. Lugset is Agrati "SPORT" w/add-ons. Frame ends Agrati as well. Headset, Campag hubs, Universal brakes & Way-Assauto pedals appear original. Balance of fittings, not so much. Person making decisions could not seem to decide between "period correct" and "modern", so ended up with something in between.

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Jantaras

Great info, thanks!

Juvela>>> the last frame looks a lot like mine, it has no chrome on fork and seat lug, so it was not sanded off as I thought earlier WAY-Assauto is new name for me, thanks!

T-Mar>>> Thanks on insigths about stem. Strange it has no markings of Made in Italy or TTT. Maybe too cheap to bother with stamping However, the wedge has markings that looks like SR (or GR), could it be Sakae?

Himespau>>> Hmm, you think the scrathes are too deep to be polished, covered with primer and wet painted? I thought of doing that...



Here are the best pictures of headset stars I could get with my phone, sorry for quality. Indeed, looks like the lateral spikes has some additional "wings", but they are looking quite diferent from star to star. Maybe its just some artifact while manufacturing/stamping?

juvela

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Thank you for these additional images.

Star question cleared up - the wings/appendages on the points simply stamping vestiges.

Found T-Mar's stem identification surprising. Will look forward to learning more about it, should there be additional information to be had.

WAY-Assauto's main bicycle related products were headsets, pedals and drive chains. Bicycle product manufacture ended ~1973-74. They are a continuing concern today with a different range of manufactures:

Home - Way Assauto Asti

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Wildman88

I bought Ciclo Piave last year for 20 usd in very bad condition. It was good for me because i had what to do in cold winter. Good bike. I like it. Very light

Citoyen du Monde

Sorry for the very late response. I used to live in Treviso and would often pass by Ciclo Piave when bringing my car to my mechanic Toni (it was a Fiat) who lived a few blocks over. I had them build a bike for my wife in 1994 (that is now used by my daughter). Ciclo Piave closed down about 20 years ago. Just before they closed, I stopped by and they let me raid all of their cabinets for old parts. I found a treasure trove of old Columbus tubing decals from the 50's plus a number of odds and sods from Campagnolo. For the decals, I had to force them to accept money for them as they were convinced that they were worthless. Ciclo Piave was owned by a member of the Michelin family, the same family that owned Miche (located just a few towns further up the road.) I used to own a Ciclo Piave from the 50's with cambio corsa derailleur. Their quality was very good.