Essthreetee

A friend of mine is looking to sell his Canopus frame and Fork. It is Columbus "Tubi Speciali Rinforzati" according to the sticker. The bottom bracket is Cinelli and is stamped with SL 60 and 70368. Frame is in good condition with a few small marks and scratches but nothing very significant. The seat tube and top tube both measure 59 CTC.

I will try to post some pics later tonight.

Any ideas?

thinktubes 

I hear it's legal to sell those in Colorado.

T-Mar

The tubing decal describes Columbus SL/SP, so that's probably the "SL" stamped into the bottom bracket. The "60" is likely the frame size, so maybe they measure C-T-T. When Italians encode the manufacturing year into their serial number formats, the most common method is to employ the first numeric character as the year indicator. So it may be 1977, 1987, 1997 etc. One brand which did stamp the tubing type into the shell during was Bottecchia, which was manufactured by Carnielli. However, I'm not aware of them having done this in the late 1970s. Consequently, pending pictures, I'll take a flyer and say that is probably a 1987 Carnielli product with a Columbus SL frame.

Essthreetee

T-Mar

That decal appears to say 'riverniciato', which which means it's mean repainted. However, it is a Columbus SL decal. Unfortunately it's also a frankenbike which complicates matters. Given the lack of embossing, it's likely a contract manufactured frame. Based on the frame features and serial number, I think that a 1987 Carnielli product is the best candidate but even some of the frame features may have been added given it's a repaint.

Essthreetee

Any guess / idea what value a frame like this might have? Also, any idea of value on the parts? The Cranks are Campy Record. The RD is Campy (Athena or Chorus I will check when I get home). Shifters are Campy, but a little chewed.

Just trying to get some info together for my friend...he is looking to sell it, either as a whole or parted out. He bought a new bike and does not have any desire to have more than one.

Thanks in advance.

zukahn1 

Based on the sale prices I have seen here and on ebay for similar very nice but lesser branded SL frame sets I would say $175-225 on the frame set. As for the components your probably best breaking them up, sold as group around $200-250 sold individually $300-350 give or take a bit depending on the type and actual condition of the shifter's.

specialmonkey

Have you seen these threads:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...storation.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...a-canopus.html

The first restoration thread is pretty interesting, with a beautiful finish.

The tubing is reinforced (not repainted ) -- and I don't think this is a Frankenbike.

Based on decals and bottom bracket (they used Cinelli), it seems to be a Canopus, made in Columbia, South America, the company I think is now defunct.

Depending on location and buyer, I think you could get between $275-$475, or more or less.

Great looking bike, I wouldn't mind having one like it in the herd.

CliffordK

I have a Canopus frame. It has a bunch of little horse decals all over it.

So, I would think those decals may be the correct brand, but not the correct decal set.

specialmonkey

Come to think of it, the decals do look to be in a different font, and you're right, no little horses. It also seems to be missing Canopus embossed seat stays, but not sure if all models had those.

Maybe this isn't really a Canopus after all? That would affect the value.

T-Mar

Well, based on the other threads, Canopus did stamp the BB with the tubing designation, followed by the frame size, so that does match. The decals may simply be from another era. After all, it is repaint. It has the Columbus repaint decal.

Essthreetee

You are both correct. He sticker says reinforced AND repainted.

That is pretty cool that there is a sticker for that....hmm, I know he bought it that way in like 1987...and then changed some of the drivetrain along the way.

I don't think anyone would try to fake a Canopus...would they? I mean, it's not like it's a known name....

Anyway, I checked the RD and it is Athena.the FF has no markings on it that I can see, the Cranks are in pretty good condition...the levers are Campy, don't know what model, but they are a little on he rough side (at least for me).

What should I tell him to do with it? Sell it as a whole? If so, what price should he start at?
Part it? If so, what prices for F/F, and all the bits? I suck at pricing and usually end up losing my shirt on most deals.

specialmonkey

Ooops I feel silly now (I should not have doubted you T-Mar ).

Because it's not that well known makes it desirable to some (rare). Also that it's Columbian (and Italian). I wouldn't sell it.

And if I did sell it, I would sell it as a complete bike. But this comes from someone who buys bikes (n+1), and doesn't think about selling bikes (yet).

Since much else lines up, it would seem odd to fake. The fork also appears to match other Canopi .

Does this bike have brifters (I don't see shift levers)? The stem also looks out of place for a classic. Maybe those are frankenparts ... if so, that would also affect value, revised estimate:

- whole bike $250-$400
- frame fork headset $150-$200
- all other parts (could take a while to sell) $200-250

T-Mar

It was how they used to control the legitimacy of a frame. Obtaining replacement tubing decals for repainted frames was very difficult. Most tubing companies would only issue one decal per tubing set and cracked down on individuals offering reproduction decals. Getting a replacement decal often meant proving the legitimacy of the bicycle with an original bull of sale. With the riverniciato decals, Columbus tried to simplify the process and put the verification process in the hands of those who knew best, the framebuilder. They would issue any amount of these decals to framebuilders, but to get them framebuilders would typically require you to have them repaint the frame or pay a "frame verification" fee. However, with the advent of home printers, reproduction decals became so commonplace that Columbus and others gave up on trying to control the market.

I have no reason to believe this is not a Canopus. As previously stated, the stampings on the bottom bracket shell match other known Canopus and prior to this, I have only seen one other manufacturer who stamped the bottom bracket shell with a tubeset identifier. The difference in decal style is likely era related.

I'll defer to others on value, given that it's a relatively obscure brand of which I had no knowledge, prior to this thread.

Essthreetee

So now I have an interesting predicament...I shared with him this thread...and he asked me if I would be interested in the whole bike for $250. should I do it?

zukahn1 

If your size I would say yes at $250 it would make a nice rider pretty much as and if you don't like it after a while you can part it out for more than you paid for it.

msl109

If you go back to the thread "Canopus Epsilon Restoration" you can track down one of the owners of the company. If I come across his contact, I'll post it or PM you; he's always glad to hear where his bikes have ended up. But I think his username is still the same on this forum as seen in that restoration thread. He put together a YouTube (?) video not so long ago.
These are fine, well crafted bikes, as nice as some of the top Italians, IMHO, and they were heavily ridden here and in Colombia - probably lots of repaints - yours is not following the original scheme and logos. It's quite possible the embossings were not done on all the frames. Got my frame as a repaint with the sticker designating that. Usually SL tubing for frames, SLX for larger ones. They used Cinelli BBs but not always. Hope that's helpful.

Essthreetee

So...I contacted Jorge (direxpo on BF) about the bike. He replied with confirmation that it is in fact a Canopus, it was built in 1987 by Hernan Vargas.

I am still deciding what to do, but in the meantime I have inflated the tires, adjusted the saddle to fit me and am going to ride it around a little. That way I can determine if it fits, and give me more food for thought.

As of right now, I am leaning towards buying it, then selling off the parts and rebuilding it.

We dhall see.

Thanks for all of your input.

Essthreetee

I got some more info today from Jorge...I emailed him some pictures. He stated that it was one of the first built, as they started business in '87 and had 3 dealers in the San Diego area (where this bike came into my friends posession). He also confirmed that the decals and paint color are not original.

I have asked him if he has any other details on it, as in...would it have been sold as a frame? Or a complete bike? If complete, what components would have been used?

Do any of you have any additional info?

Thanks