Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-14-10, 08:53 PM   #1
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
87-ish Puegot w/carbon fork.. looking at buying it

What do you chaps think this thing is really worth, though. Got to love the line "could use some work" wherever it shows up, but I'm selling one of my cars so this project should fit in nicely.

I want it partially because of the carbon fork which is nice, and partly because it looks nice, But pretty much mostly because its french. Very, very french.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/bik/1898656200.html

I've requested better pictures, but what are going to be some problems with this unit? I figure that it will have french threads for the bottom bracket, no? This may be a problem if needing an upgrade, no? Friction shifters = thumbs down... but judging by the pedals the crankset is probably nicer..

Anyone with good experience able to chime in? San Diego CA area.
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 04:25 AM   #2
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
High price for a bike that needs work. The closer it is to pristine/ready to go, the more realistic the price. Up to you, I wouldn't pay it. 1987 is free of the french threading, should be past that. Should be indexed if it is 1987 or newer.
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 07:49 AM   #3
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Posts: 22,656
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
carbon fork? carbon steel perhaps. the blades look too thin for carbonfiber. the shifters look to me like they are nonindexing but hard to tell with these pics. Wieniman brakes? I am with Work101, this looks pricey for needing lots of TLC
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 10:56 AM   #4
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, feel free to load me up with the details. You know how it goes, that's their asking price but they have a bottom price in mind, I just need to know how to work them down on to that. They don't seem to know a ton about this bike or bikes in general, maybe a rider but not a mechanical do-er.

I'd be happy for about 150-180 perhaps, The market for peugeots like this in San Diego seems to be about 200-225 even, for basically any road going non-fixie before 90.

So, Not a carbon fiber fork, and if the shifters are non-indexed, two big hits on his asking price. Any other thoughts? Obviously if it has scratches/rust blemishes, another big deal.. I probably won't take a bike with any dings in the paint, since there are a ton out there. Check the tires to see if they are newer, tubes, brakes, etc.

Anything else you guys specifically pick up on? Price you think is good for this kind of bike?
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 03:37 PM   #5
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
1987 should be indexed shifting, if it isn't, something is up.

Replacement fork = crashed bike. So make sure fork is original (seller is probably confused).

Double check the online catalogs, you decide.

Tubing material? Is fork original? Components? My interest level is low at that price, really low.

The problem with a bike priced well over market, is that no one says that sellers can't ask too much for bikes. And the seller might just hook a fish.. err.. customer, that will overpay for the bike.

Last edited by wrk101; 08-15-10 at 05:29 PM.
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 05:05 PM   #6
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Its probably a PH10 from 1986 or so. In ready to ride condition its a $175-225 bike depending on your local market. I'll venture a guess and say the fork has a decal thats reads 'Carbolite 103' which is leading the seller to believe its 'carbon fiber'. Um, no.

If it is a 10-series bike it will be a nice riding bike as all 10-series models have geometry thats very similar to the high end race bikes. If you plan on being the end user thats a $125-175 bike as it sits. $125-175+$50 for parts and you have $175-225 into it. I dont know, hows the San Diego market? Is it Portalnd, Seattle, SF expensive or is it middle America Nebraska dead.
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 07:27 PM   #7
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't know the market too well right now. I'd say its a buyers market with how flooded CL is with bikes, but its always gorgeous out, and there are a ton of riders, compared to anywhere else I've lived. But not like Santa Barbara.

I think I'll offer maybe 100-135 on the bike then if I look at it, but its good to know the prices of them. I'm pretty interested in a Peugeot, so thanks for the info.

They never made any sort of carbon fork/frame before 90, then? Maybe he just is up or down by 3 years on the age? Hmm. This makes sense though, I'm sure hes just on crack cocaine.

**Edit** Hmm, maybe I'm on drugs, but could this really be a 1986 CY10FC? The decals look I-freaking-dentical to teh ones in the brochure. Maybe I'm off my rocker. Again, Brochure http://www.cyclespeugeot.com/PDFs/1986pdf.pdf
And craigslist http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/bik/1898656200.html

Pedals look the same, rainbow and lettering look the same, only the fork looks funny.maybe its because all the peugeots look the same these years.. but maybe?
I dunno, out of all the bikes in the 86 rag, that is the only one with the shifters where they are on that bike.

Last edited by chance91; 08-15-10 at 07:52 PM.
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 08:03 PM   #8
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Zero chance. I count at least eight bikes in that brochure with DT shifters. That site by the way is Miami Jim's, and Jim has already told you what model he thought it was.
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 10:01 PM   #9
retyred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
That Peugeot was originally listed at $700 with the same description. If it is indeed a Carbolite frame it's in the $200 range in ready to ride condition. I sold a PSV frame Peugeot (Vitus 980) with Campy components two years ago, excellent condition, for $280. Same market area, on CL also. Keep on looking, it's a buyer's market right noe.
retyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-10, 10:21 PM   #10
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
aha, ok then. Well, hey I don't know this enough to know, you know :-D

I'll keep looking and rollin the dice. Thanks guys, you're troopers. Either way I hope to get more into this bike thing, I'm taking apart and rebuilding my old C.Itoh right now as a learning experience, can't wait to get into a slightly nicer frame.

Hmm. sucks that this guy knows about as little as I do about his bike! Thank you for the insight fellas.

Go figure I clicked the link in his sig and its his site! haha.
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-10, 08:04 AM   #11
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Retyred knows the SoCal market, if he says its a buyers market then its a buyers market. The lack of lugs means its an entry level to mid level bike at best. the best bikes Peugeot made without lugs would have been the PH501 and later Triathlon models.

Carbolite and high carbon are terms that refer to type of metal with carbon metal content. its metal, its magnetic. Do NOT confuse it it tubes made of carbon fibers.
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-10, 08:15 AM   #12
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance91 View Post

Hmm. sucks that this guy knows about as little as I do about his bike! Thank you for the insight fellas.
The best deals are from clueless sellers. Unfortunately, being clueless cuts both ways. Sometimes they think they have some priceless piece, and you won't be able to change their mind. Other times, they think it is just some worn out piece of junk that they want to get rid of NOW (they need the garage space, or whatever).

My favorite sellers are the ones that can't (or won't) take pictures, can't work a tape measure, can't read the model off the side of the bike, won't return calls, don't respond to emails, are lazy, etc. This pretty much eliminates the competition. Unfortunately, you have to do some driving in those cases, and sometimes it is a nice bike, sometimes it is a waste of time. My favorite all time scoop was a one word ad (no pics, no brand, no nothing) "Bycicle". That's right, the seller even misspelled bicycle. Turned out to be a really sweet high end Cannondale.

My advice is to improve your knowledge. In any transaction, the one with the most knowledge WINS. I much prefer that person to be me. It won't take long to know more than most sellers out there.
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-10, 02:20 PM   #13
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post

My advice is to improve your knowledge. In any transaction, the one with the most knowledge WINS. I much prefer that person to be me. It won't take long to know more than most sellers out there.
A+ advice, thanks. Yea, that's how it goes. I'm getting pretty well educated quickly here, and through taking apart my bike, I can already name about 90% of the components by the correct name finally, and I get the difference between freewheels and cassettes, and can tell by the 7-8-9-10 speed shimano stuff what year it is roughly, pre and post 97

I know the differences between aluminum, High tensile steel, Chromoly steel, and Carbon fiber, and I've even built some carbon fiber pieces in my Mechanics of Materials lab, but its tough for me to tell them by a few pictures in a bike. I realize what you guys meant by the fork now, it is too thin to be carbon fiber since it wouldn't be strong enough.

One thing I don't get yet is what is "Lugged Frame" refereing to? Is that some way the frame is constructed specifically? Like how you put the tubes together?

Also, why so many Fixed gear conversions? Do people buy these things to flip and strip them down of all the components and sell them single gear or sometihng? I saw one peugeot fixie converted, with a cotteredcrank and about as low end components as you can get, "rebuilt and tuned!" but the rebuild was basically a tear down to supply his parts stash it looks like.

Last edited by chance91; 08-16-10 at 02:35 PM.
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-10, 02:49 PM   #14
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance91 View Post
A+ advice, thanks. Yea, that's how it goes. I'm getting pretty well educated quickly here, and through taking apart my bike, I can already name about 90% of the components by the correct name finally, and I get the difference between freewheels and cassettes, and can tell by the 7-8-9-10 speed shimano stuff what year it is roughly, pre and post 97

I know the differences between aluminum, High tensile steel, Chromoly steel, and Carbon fiber, and I've even built some carbon fiber pieces in my Mechanics of Materials lab, but its tough for me to tell them by a few pictures in a bike. I realize what you guys meant by the fork now, it is too thin to be carbon fiber since it wouldn't be strong enough.

One thing I don't get yet is what is "Lugged Frame" refereing to? Is that some way the frame is constructed specifically? Like how you put the tubes together?

Also, why so many Fixed gear conversions? Do people buy these things to flip and strip them down of all the components and sell them single gear or sometihng? I saw one peugeot fixie converted, with a cotteredcrank and about as low end components as you can get, "rebuilt and tuned!" but the rebuild was basically a tear down to supply his parts stash it looks like.
Yep, you have it pretty well figured out. The F/G is a bubble, that is just about over. Shrewd flippers could get a bottom end vintage road bike, remove a lot of the components, put about $25 into it, and sell it for 2X what similar bikes would go for. But the bubble is over around here, I am seeing SS/FG prices dropping.

Lugged frame is just that. Where there is a junction between frame tubes, there is a lug, where the tubes are brazed into place to make the frame. No real advantage to lugged frames, but a lot of us (me included) just like the look of a vintage frame with lugs.

Here is an example of a modern (2003) lugged frame. On this bike, the lugs are chrome, so they are easy to spot. It is very unusual to find a modern bike with lugs. Most of them went out by the early to mid 1990s.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Colnago Lugs Comp.jpg (76.2 KB, 6 views)
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-10, 07:23 PM   #15
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Huh, so after lugs they just started welding or what? For steel / aluminum anyway?

Interesting to know, so pre-1994 or so, lugs are indicative of a top of the line bike, but afterward or so, they are indicative of a lower end model, basically?

That's good info, thank you.

Got to love fads, I didn't get the point of fixed gears at all on a bike, it seems as if though it would be a miserable ride not having the right gears for different terrain. I only use maybe 3-4 in the end, but still, If you want to go slow or fast its nice to have the option. Huh. Weird Indeed.
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-10, 08:24 PM   #16
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance91 View Post
Huh, so after lugs they just started welding or what? For steel / aluminum anyway?

Interesting to know, so pre-1994 or so, lugs are indicative of a top of the line bike, but afterward or so, they are indicative of a lower end model, basically?
Not exactly. My picture above is a 2003 (I think, might be off on the year) Colnago Master Lite, lugged steel, Columbus Gilco tubing. Bike sold for almost $4000 new.

Most older steel bikes were lugged frames: the cheap ones, the good ones, and everything in between. Schwinn had the EF steel frames (not lugged). So you can't make any conclusions on a bike based solely on lugs.

Basically, the market first went to TIG welded steel, so even pretty good bikes no longer had lugged frames. Shortly after that, aluminum became the frame material of choice. And now, high end bikes have carbon frames, and just about everything else is aluminum. There are a few steel bikes still out there, but not much.
wrk101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-10, 12:33 PM   #17
chance91
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Not exactly. My picture above is a 2003 (I think, might be off on the year) Colnago Master Lite, lugged steel, Columbus Gilco tubing. Bike sold for almost $4000 new.

Most older steel bikes were lugged frames: the cheap ones, the good ones, and everything in between. Schwinn had the EF steel frames (not lugged). So you can't make any conclusions on a bike based solely on lugs.

Basically, the market first went to TIG welded steel, so even pretty good bikes no longer had lugged frames. Shortly after that, aluminum became the frame material of choice. And now, high end bikes have carbon frames, and just about everything else is aluminum. There are a few steel bikes still out there, but not much.
Huh, while I was in school at the machine shop there was a kid building a stainless steel bike. I helped him a little with the welding, but doing that pipe is super tough since its so thin with a tig. I wasn't aware there is any industrial way of tig welding, isn't that only by hand? In which case that would pump up construction cost something crazy.

Hmm
chance91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:09 PM.