Notices
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

Does Size Matter?

Old 02-18-12, 10:49 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jjhabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,891

Bikes: to many to list

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 255 Posts
Does Size Matter?

Curious my fellow retro bike geeks, When it comes to value I see that some of you use the framesize as a variable on price. I'm trying to understand why that is. Size is size. If less people ride a 21 inch frame does it make your bike worth less. The person that needs that size will pay for it if the bicycle is worth it. Just curious...Love to hear other opinions.
jjhabbs is offline  
Old 02-18-12, 10:59 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,552
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4195 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times in 1,780 Posts
If more people ride a size, it'll move faster, so you could price it higher. If less people ride the size (even if that one person who finds it is super desirous of it and might pay more because it's hard to find), it'll probably take him longer to match up with you, so it's a sunk cost until you find each other, so it may not be worth the cost of a restore. And I say this as a taller person who finds the 22.5" he currently rides to be too small.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is online now  
Old 02-18-12, 11:34 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,582

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked 1,706 Times in 620 Posts
Also size can be a indicator of a better quality bike. As most makers only made higher end bikes in the semi custom really large or small sizes. I have also found that smaller womens sizes often get a premium in vintage road bikes as a lot more women are riding road bikes now as compared to when they where made.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 02-18-12, 11:38 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
+1. Common size equal higher price. Less common sizes equal lower prices. A knowledgeable person needing a small bicycle will know the seller has less opportunites to sell it and will low-ball his offer. Basically, the less common the size, the more the opportunity for the buyer to haggle on price and most likely get it at a discount. Of course, these rules of thumb are applicable primarily to local selling and even then, there are exceptions. Things like Ebay open up a potential global market.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 02-18-12, 12:04 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Miyata110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 331

Bikes: 1986 Miyata 110

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Basic supply and demand - I think T-Mar has it right. In any given local market, demand for C&V is going to be relatively limited, add in an odd size frame and you demand drops further still. Lower demand = lower price. This isn't definitive - maybe there are several 5'4" people in your area looking for a high end 19" C&V. Probably not though.
Miyata110 is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 07:10 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,672

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,743 Times in 934 Posts
It has been my experience that only big frames command lower prices. The smaller framed vintage road bicycle actually sell for more because they are smaller. Why is this?

Big demands a big body for fit and big bodies are not at all common. Small frames demand a smaller body to fit, and there were not that many sold to a primarily male clientele in the Old School days. However, today, ladies like to get vintage road bicycles, the same as guys do. With that in mind, the demand for smaller frames, to fit today's woman, is much higher that is the demand for big frames. Hence, the final value prices are reflected by the supply and demand thing.

Little demand for really large frames because there are fewer potential customers. Great demand for smaller frames that were rare even in Old School days. So, the demand for small frames is present today and there are a lot more people (mostly female) who seek such bicycles.

That is the way I see it, anyway.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 07:59 AM
  #7  
Vello Kombi, baby
 
Poguemahone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Je suis ici
Posts: 5,322

Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by randyjawa
It has been my experience that only big frames command lower prices. The smaller framed vintage road bicycle actually sell for more because they are smaller. Why is this?

Big demands a big body for fit and big bodies are not at all common. Small frames demand a smaller body to fit, and there were not that many sold to a primarily male clientele in the Old School days. However, today, ladies like to get vintage road bicycles, the same as guys do. With that in mind, the demand for smaller frames, to fit today's woman, is much higher that is the demand for big frames. Hence, the final value prices are reflected by the supply and demand thing.

Little demand for really large frames because there are fewer potential customers. Great demand for smaller frames that were rare even in Old School days. So, the demand for small frames is present today and there are a lot more people (mostly female) who seek such bicycles.

That is the way I see it, anyway.
Pretty much this. I would ad that size and fit theories have shifted some over the years, and if you walked into a shop twenty or so years ago you would be fitted to a larger bike than you would today. So I believe more large frames were built in the past, relative to today.

In addition, small frames demand a premium. They're not hard to move at all. I don't think I've ever kept one for an extended time while trying to sell. The same is not true of larger frames.
__________________
"It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

Waste your money! Buy my comic book!
Poguemahone is offline  
Old 02-20-12, 08:02 AM
  #8  
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,570

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 957 Times in 624 Posts
On road/racing bikes: small sell for a premium, anything under 21 inches. And the smaller you go from there, the higher the premium. Large sell for a discount, anything over 24 inches. Even 21 inch can enjoy a slight small frame premium.

Its simple supply and demand. Back when vintage bikes were being built, bike companies marketed really basic bikes like step throughs to female riders. "Mens" bikes started big. Check out some of the old Schwinn catalogs. In the 1970s, a "small" mens bike was a 22 inch, a medium was a 24 inch, and a large was 26 inch.

Nowadays, riders are being sized onto smaller bikes, and I see a large influx of women triathletes, looking for small to extra small racing bikes. Its all about supply and demand. Back in the 1970s, I was sized to ride a 24 inch frame. I now ride a 22 inch.

While the number of riders that will fit an 18 inch frame bike is limited, the supply of small frame bikes is much more limited. Try finding an 18 inch steel Trek (usually their smallest size was 19 inch). I had one. Buyer drove four hours one way to get it. From my meager research, only one vintage Trek model came that small (there were probably more, but I haven't looked at every single catalog).

Different than TMar, I never haggle on small frame bikes. No need. I run out of supply long before I run out of people looking for them.

While maybe only 5 out of 100 riders will fit an XS road bike, I find them maybe 1/100 or 1/200. And I will pay a premium to get one, and drive further too.

Now if you look at modern bikes, they are all being sized smaller. This keeps a cap on the pricing on the small vintage bikes. There is a ready supply of new small adult racing bikes at most any bike shop.

Size is not size. Its all about supply and demand. If there is an ample supply, and relatively low demand, price goes down. If there is very limited supply, with limited (but higher) demand, price goes up.

While I have benefited from the small bike premium, I have been on the other side of this as well. I have had several 25 inch or larger frame bikes. Most of them were pristine/outstanding condition. I have sold them for quite a bit less $$, and it took a lot longer to do it. Realize that it takes the same $$ in parts and consumables, and the same time to rehab a large frame bike as compared to a small frame bike. I just picked up a 25 inch Schwinn Prelude and a 25 1/2 inch Raleigh Super Course 12. We'll see how this turns out.

Last edited by wrk101; 02-20-12 at 08:20 AM.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 02-21-12, 08:56 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jjhabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,891

Bikes: to many to list

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times in 255 Posts
Thanks. Everytime I see a frame I like on Ebay or CL its never my size..60 center to top or center to center..both work.
jjhabbs is offline  
Old 02-21-12, 10:17 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Value is subjective in the C&V market. Average sizes have higher demand and thus incite more competition among prospective buyers.

Big sizes illicit less demand, but, there are a few tall guys out there on the hunt. And when you rope one of them, you'll find that they will often pay just as high. It just takes a long time.
toosahn is offline  
Old 02-21-12, 11:12 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,320
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3449 Post(s)
Liked 2,800 Times in 1,974 Posts
Originally Posted by toosahn
Big sizes illicit less demand, but, there are a few tall guys out there on the hunt. And when you rope one of them, you'll find that they will often pay just as high. It just takes a long time.
Tall guys are cheap and they get the deals. So it is.
repechage is offline  
Old 02-22-12, 12:04 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
gioscinelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,245

Bikes: 2012 Moots VaMoots-74 Peugeot Mixtie U018-73 Peugeot U018

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
I think the most important spec's on a given road bike is "stand over height"! Going with manufactures size specifications are confusing do to some being compact in design with the slopping top tube( benefits the manufacture and LSB). When ever I list a bike on Ebay, or CL I always include the SOH, people appreciate the extra effort in your description. Ideal frame or bike size is 52cm(20.5in) to 56cm(22in) from my past experience. Some buyers will allow for smaller frame, but not too large. When I get a call on one of my bikes on CL, I usually ask their inseam length to better advise for a good fit(some don't pay any attention to detail).
__________________
Moots VaMoots 2012-Peugeot Mixte 1974-Peugeot Mixte 1973
gioscinelli is offline  
Old 02-24-12, 12:46 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
ahandley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Clinton, TN
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I use frame size, tire size and SOH. Although some people don't know what SOH is. I had a young lady wanting to look at a 19" frame mountain bike with 26" tires and 29" SOH. She showed up and was about 5'3". Needless to say it didn't work and I had opportunity to educate her. When she found something she wanted, she called and asked if she could bring it over and asked my advice. I thought that was nice.
ahandley is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kpross
BMX
0
05-17-17 06:00 AM
Scratcher09
Road Cycling
5
05-09-15 03:26 PM
Fauvel
Winter Cycling
6
12-15-14 08:59 AM
Louis
Fifty Plus (50+)
2
06-11-12 08:15 AM
3speed
Classic & Vintage
19
04-22-11 09:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.