WDM Dirt Rider

Can I please get some feedback. I'm wanting to sell my 1986 Schwinn Paramount. I have the asking price set at $1250. I'm still an active cyclist, but I don't keep up with what is happening with "vintage" stuff. Based on what I see on the web, I think I'm in the ballpark with regard to price.

Your thoughts.

Here's the link to craigslist.

https://desmoines.craigslist.org/bik/3540352582.html

Thanks much.

Scooper

A couple of observations that may help. You mention in the CL listing that it's frameset 106, but that is a relative number. The K86106 means it was the 106th Paramount scheduled for production in the month of October, 1986. The size of the frame in millimeters is the first three digits in the serial number, but the second digit is covered by the derailleur cable in the BB shell photo. A potential purchaser would want to know the frame size. In 1986, Schwinn used SLX tubing for frame sizes up to 60cm, and a combination of SL and SP for frame sizes 60cm and larger. Unless your bike was ordered as a custom specifying SL tubing, it would have been built with SLX.

The price seems on the high side to me, but is really dependent on your local Des Moines market. You'd probably get a better price by listing it on eBay with its wider audience. The Super Record group is a plus for many as most of the late eighties Paramounts were built up with Dura-Ace.

Good luck with the sale.

EDIT - Looking at completed eBay sales, this 1988 58cm Paramount went for $950 with 12 bids. It had a Superb Pro group.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MERRY-CHRIST...p2047675.l2557

...and here's a 60cm 1988 with Dura-Ace that went for $950.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MERRY-CHRIST...p2047675.l2557

Bianchigirll 

Welcome to the forums WDM Dirt Rider.

Good looking bike but I think it needs tires. At $1200 it should be ready to roll or atleast look it. Check out Yellow Jersey's 3 tires for $50, you can mount two and use an old toestrap to put the third under the saddle. Also those little cable end caps will give it a more finished look.

I agree if your willing to work with a buyer on shipping, ebay will get you a better price. Check with your LBS and get a price for packing it and ballpark figure on shipping.

wrk101

First, the nice thing about Craigs List, is it is free. So you can ask any price you want. So if you think it is worth that price, why not?

But here you are asking our opinion. And many of us sell quite a few bikes, and have our opinions. And I certainly have an opinion on this one.

OK, with that out of the way, here goes.

Price is high, really high, for that bike. I have a 1985 Paramount myself, and would love to get that kind of coin for it. I am not that familiar with the Des Moines market, I bought mine from a flipper in Charlotte, NC. Mine is a smaller size, with an SLX frameset.

Not ready to ride to boot. I just don't think it is going to happen.

"Serious collectors/enthusiasts only", I would drop that line.

In most markets, for a higher end bike, I would average ebay prices, and reduce them by about 25%. Realize that ebay's fees will cost you about 15%. So the other 10% is a convenience factor. Selling on ebay can be a PITA, and there is a lot of variance in final pricing. eBay also has a severe tilt towards buyers over sellers. So items sold can end up unsold, with you eating shipping costs, etc. and unless you are an active seller on eBay, be prepared to get pricing on the lower side.

High end bikes around here often go low, really low, so prices sometimes are 50% below ebay, leaving room for buyers to resell on ebay and come out ahead.

When looking at ebay prices, be sure to look at completed auctions that SOLD. There are always way optimistic sellers with sky high asking prices. Those bikes tend to never sell. In addition, the Chicago era Paramounts (1970s and before) bring more money.

Bianchigirll 

Hey Scooper... why did they use SLX on smaller bikes but SL/SP mix on larger frame? It seems to me it would be the other way.

FastJake

These were the two points that came to my mind as well.

Any buyer seriously considering that bike will know that they will need to spend $100+ on decent tubular tires. Sure, you could put cheap tubulars on but someone buying a $1000 bike will probably not do that. Bikes always look bad without tires, so that doesn't help you.

Bar tape is dirty, speedometer wire is sloppy, etc. It's not presented that well, and the price is pretty high.

bibliobob

Unfortunately, those later Paramounts just don't seem to fetch the big bucks. If you want to see anything close to $1200, I think that you're going to have to part it out and sell on Ebay. That will get you the most money, but will also take the most work and time.

It's a beautiful bike, but I think that, unless I'm massively underestimating the Des Moines CL, you'll only get about half that as a local sale for the complete bike (especially in winter). That being said, sometimes being in a smaller market works in your favor. It only takes one buyer and you may find a local 80s Paramount buff who falls in love with it and is less concerned with cost.

As a point of reference, I sold a Super Record Olmo on the Chicago CL in winter, and had to settle for $500. I could've made double by parting it out, but I wanted a local sale...

Best of luck to you!

Bianchigirll 

Hey Dirt Rider don't feel too bad they piled on me just as hard when I asked for advice and I thought I had my bike set up pretty good.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ena-good-price

Before


After and I still plan to swapp the tires out.

Scooper

Schwinn (and a number of other builders using Columbus tubing) discovered that larger SLX frames - even with the helical reinforcements - were noodley, especially with heavier riders as is often the case with large frames. The use of SL for the top tubes and seat tubes with the thicker walled SP for down tubes on larger frames gave them the required stiffness without being that much heavier than SLX.

This is the 1986 Paramount catalog page. Below is an enlargement of the sidebar at the upper right corner.

WDM Dirt Rider

All great inputs! Thanks very much everybody. I'll add the detail that is contained on the BB shell. Sounds like I need to adjust the price downward a bit. But again, I don't have any feel for the vintage market.

Thanks again.

thinktubes 

Agree about the comments regarding presentation. Can you hold out until spring? You're going give away a few hundred by selling now. CL really heats up in the spring.

Bianchigirll 

OK..... it sounds backwards but makes sense. I am suprised they didn't just use SPX but I guess the SL/SP mix gets similar performance at the same weight.

Scooper

At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread, I really think Bianchigirll's question deserves some discussion.

Here are the butting profiles of SL, SLX, SP, and SPX, including the weight of each set of tubes before being cut and mitered by the framebuilder. The descriptions of SL and SLX are also shown so that the locations of the helical reinforcements in the butted part of the tubes may be seen.

Here are the weights of the compete tubesets:

SL = 1,925 g
SLX = 1,966 g
SP = 2,215 g
SPX = 2,325 g

Notice that the tubing walls for SL and SLX are identical, but that SLX has five cold-drawn helical reinforcements at the butted ends of the tubes. Similarly, the tubing walls of SP and SPX are identical and SPX has the same five helical reinforcements at the butted ends (the SLX and SPX top tubes don't have the reinforcements).

Since it's in the long, thinner walled non-butted sections of the tubing that determines the stiffness of standard O.D. tubing, and the down tube stiffness has a much greater effect on the overall frame stiffness than the other tubes in the main triangle, using SL for the top tube and seat tube, and SP with its thicker walls on the down tube make sense.

The weight of the SP down tube when used with SL top tube and SL seat tube provides the needed stiffness without the heavy weight penalty (pun intended) of using SP or SPX for the whole frame.