Flippers: A Rant (Sort of)
03-04-14, 02:56 PM
#26
Decrepit Member
03-04-14, 05:25 PM
#27
Senior Member
If I held bikes for people that were coming this weekend, or tomorrow, or whatever, I would have 100 more bikes than I have today. C/L is the land of no shows. My basic rule is I will hold a bike if you call when you are heading my way (I won't sell it out from under you while you are driving). Last bike I held was supposed to be for two days (payday for the buyer). I even took a deposit. Well, then his paycheck was less than he thought, then his rent was due, etc. It drug out for over a month. Shame on me.
And on a bike that is a smokin hot deal, like that Ritchey, I assume any delay on my part invites others to bump me off the priority list by offering more. Anymore, if I can't pounce, I assume someone else will. That said, about two months ago, there was an incredible deal on C/L, I saw the ad an hour after it was posted, so I assumed it was gone. The next day, the ad was still up (WTF?), I contacted the seller, and picked up a Trek 1420 for $40. Why all the scoopers were not all over this deal was beyond me. After refreshing the bike (cables, bearings, new tires, replaced saddle and pedals, new bar tape), it sold quickly at fair market value.
The advantage of being an old retired guy is I usually have the flexibility to launch after a bike any time. The disadvantage is I do not have a paycheck to fund this activity. So it kind of balances out.
And on a bike that is a smokin hot deal, like that Ritchey, I assume any delay on my part invites others to bump me off the priority list by offering more. Anymore, if I can't pounce, I assume someone else will. That said, about two months ago, there was an incredible deal on C/L, I saw the ad an hour after it was posted, so I assumed it was gone. The next day, the ad was still up (WTF?), I contacted the seller, and picked up a Trek 1420 for $40. Why all the scoopers were not all over this deal was beyond me. After refreshing the bike (cables, bearings, new tires, replaced saddle and pedals, new bar tape), it sold quickly at fair market value.
The advantage of being an old retired guy is I usually have the flexibility to launch after a bike any time. The disadvantage is I do not have a paycheck to fund this activity. So it kind of balances out.
03-04-14, 05:36 PM
#28
Still learning
^Ah yes, the famous I showered with this bike flipper. That fellow should know that glass block was last a hot look around the same time Miami Vice was on TV!
03-04-14, 07:47 PM
#29
Senior Member
The Ritchey is a lower end model that won't sell for that much to a collector. And if you don't believe me, I have the same frame and fork in my garage that I will let go for half his asking price.
I don't mind flippers at all, I like to think they hide the gems between their multitude of reposted adds from the casual eyes.
I don't mind flippers at all, I like to think they hide the gems between their multitude of reposted adds from the casual eyes.
03-04-14, 07:59 PM
#30
Senior Member
The Ritchey is a lower end model that won't sell for that much to a collector. And if you don't believe me, I have the same frame and fork in my garage that I will let go for half his asking price.
I don't mind flippers at all, I like to think they hide the gems between their multitude of reposted adds from the casual eyes.
I don't mind flippers at all, I like to think they hide the gems between their multitude of reposted adds from the casual eyes.
03-04-14, 08:03 PM
#31
Senior Member
I would have grabbed it at $50 which is exactly what I paid for the one I quoted in the garage.
I can't imagine selling anything with a picture of it on the toilet, although once I bought a Fisher that had dog poop on the tire.
03-04-14, 08:06 PM
#32
Senior Member
He's been doing it for a while and received lots of hate postings on CL :-). I yet to buy something from him but tempted sometimes - he has couple of frames I am semi-interested in (one repaint Raleigh 531 and another is Claud Butler). So may be one day I will get to see the toilette!
03-04-14, 08:13 PM
#33
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I sort of share the perspective of @mongol777 and a few others. I generally would only try to buy a bike that I'm actually interested in riding... often because it's a model I've read good things about here. And it does get frustrating when someone else gets to it first and gets a good deal on it because I can't make it to the seller until after I'm done with work... and then the bike shows up back on CL for what is no longer a good price.
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03-04-14, 08:22 PM
#34
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+1. Look at that door!
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FB4K - Every October we wrench on donated bikes. Every December, a few thousand kids get bikes for Christmas. For many, it is their first bike, ever. Every bike, new and used, was donated, built, cleaned and repaired. Check us out on FaceBook: FB4K.
Disclaimer: 99% of what I know about cycling I learned on BF. That would make, ummm, 1% experience. And a lot of posts.
03-04-14, 10:15 PM
#35
Senior Member
I sort of share the perspective of @mongol777 and a few others. I generally would only try to buy a bike that I'm actually interested in riding... often because it's a model I've read good things about here. And it does get frustrating when someone else gets to it first and gets a good deal on it because I can't make it to the seller until after I'm done with work... and then the bike shows up back on CL for what is no longer a good price.
- Has to be the bike I really like and want to try out (even if size is not quite right)
- When I later rebuild it and/or refurbish for sale - I know how it rides, I can tell potential next owner cons and pros from my perspective and I generally put a lot of effort to try and make it nicer (one of my last acquisitions, Miyata 100 is case in point - great ride, handling and frame is superb, very nice ride. My buddy wanted drivetrain so he got and I built it up as FG, really nice FG - Ritchey wheelset with sealed bearing, screaming orange pedals, tires and grips. It came out so nice that everytime I come down to garage I can't stop looking at it and have serious second thoughts on just hanging on to it. Event original crankset worked out real nice - chainrings are stainless steel and very round plus big ring is hidden behind built in chainguard, makes for very clean airy look)
- If I get greedy and just get the bike for pure resale - I am not very passionate about selling it and it shows (somehow pictures don't come out right, I may try and save by installing cheaper grips, whatever pedals I have laying around, etc - just can't bring myself to spend time and effort). Luckily I get less and less of those - pretty much zero since last summer.
And I am usually can go and get the bike on a short notice but work comes first always - I have to take of my customers (which sucks sometimes but I love my job and it pays the bills and lets me be picky about bikes I buy). Funny but I missed Ritchey not because of my job but because of my little brother - for whatever reasons he decided to throw his b-day party on Sun instead of usual Sat. And Sun was the day when stars aligned and I should have been on my way to get the Ritchey.
03-04-14, 11:38 PM
#36
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I've had stuff like that backfire on me though.
I was selling a Gibson Les Paul Standard at a very reasonable price. Guy calls me up in the morning and tells me he wants it but cant be to my place until 6pm that evening. I basically tell him i only do reservations if you are on your way to pick it up and he starts throwing a tantrum. I eventually relent and he promises to be at my place that evening, 6pm sharp.
Well, wouldn't you know it he calls me up at 5:30 after I turned several others away telling me his meeting is taking longer than expected, and that i should just go ahead and sell it to someone else because he wont be in my area for another week. Frigin unbelievable.
03-05-14, 06:58 AM
#37
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This is exactly why I don't barter over email/text/phone. All offers in cash and in person only. How can anyone make a realistic offer without seeing the item? I'll usually take less than asking, but my prices are reasonable. I have no problem walking away for $10; and usually buyer attitude will dictate that.
03-05-14, 07:09 AM
#38
Senior Member
I've had stuff like that backfire on me though.
I was selling a Gibson Les Paul Standard at a very reasonable price. Guy calls me up in the morning and tells me he wants it but cant be to my place until 6pm that evening. I basically tell him i only do reservations if you are on your way to pick it up and he starts throwing a tantrum. I eventually relent and he promises to be at my place that evening, 6pm sharp.
Well, wouldn't you know it he calls me up at 5:30 after I turned several others away telling me his meeting is taking longer than expected, and that i should just go ahead and sell it to someone else because he wont be in my area for another week. Frigin unbelievable.
I was selling a Gibson Les Paul Standard at a very reasonable price. Guy calls me up in the morning and tells me he wants it but cant be to my place until 6pm that evening. I basically tell him i only do reservations if you are on your way to pick it up and he starts throwing a tantrum. I eventually relent and he promises to be at my place that evening, 6pm sharp.
Well, wouldn't you know it he calls me up at 5:30 after I turned several others away telling me his meeting is taking longer than expected, and that i should just go ahead and sell it to someone else because he wont be in my area for another week. Frigin unbelievable.
03-05-14, 08:11 AM
#39
a77impala
If I didn't flip a bike now and then my bike fund would be zero. It allows me to upgrade bikes I want to keep.
03-05-14, 12:53 PM
#41
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+99 to a77impala. Flip money bike fund= a nice wheel upgrade or another pair of pedals if the bike stable is good for now.
It seems that whenever I am selling a Trek mid to late 80's touring bike, 520, 620, 720 someone that really wants it contacts me from hours away. Once from Hawaii even. Can I hold it for them? You bet, just paypal the money and it's a deal. I refer them to my ebay ID with a lot of bike sales and 100% feedback so that is a must have for instilling confidence in a Craig's List transaction.
I held a 1989 520 for 5 weeks recently. The guy HAD to have it. It was odd because the buyer contacted me and so did his brother without either knowing at first. Maybe they will share it!!
It seems that whenever I am selling a Trek mid to late 80's touring bike, 520, 620, 720 someone that really wants it contacts me from hours away. Once from Hawaii even. Can I hold it for them? You bet, just paypal the money and it's a deal. I refer them to my ebay ID with a lot of bike sales and 100% feedback so that is a must have for instilling confidence in a Craig's List transaction.
I held a 1989 520 for 5 weeks recently. The guy HAD to have it. It was odd because the buyer contacted me and so did his brother without either knowing at first. Maybe they will share it!!
03-05-14, 10:57 PM
#42
Mike J
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Don't know if this is the appropriate place for this mini rant, but why not?
I actually appreciate people who save otherwise serviceable bikes from the dump. And I appreciate people who check over the mechanicals, replace worn parts, clean bikes up, then look to make a profit off their labor. And I realize that there is nothing wrong, per se, with flipping.
I actually saw the initial add and thought, that looks like, with a once over, maybe a tune up would make a nice commuter, or entry level bike for someone. Oddly enough, that same bike sat on CL for weeks until the seller dropped the price to $100. I know the original seller sold the bike Friday because I actually inquired about it, seller texted me back that he just sold the bike. No big deal, as an extra bike project is more a want than a need for me anyhow. Now the same bike is back up with a different seller for $250.
So here is add A, posted Friday.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/4353697158.html
Here is add B, posted this morning.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/4356249644.html
So, I am not hopping mad, nor even disappointed I didn't rush out and get this bike, but mildly piqued.
I actually appreciate people who save otherwise serviceable bikes from the dump. And I appreciate people who check over the mechanicals, replace worn parts, clean bikes up, then look to make a profit off their labor. And I realize that there is nothing wrong, per se, with flipping.
I actually saw the initial add and thought, that looks like, with a once over, maybe a tune up would make a nice commuter, or entry level bike for someone. Oddly enough, that same bike sat on CL for weeks until the seller dropped the price to $100. I know the original seller sold the bike Friday because I actually inquired about it, seller texted me back that he just sold the bike. No big deal, as an extra bike project is more a want than a need for me anyhow. Now the same bike is back up with a different seller for $250.
So here is add A, posted Friday.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/4353697158.html
Here is add B, posted this morning.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/4356249644.html
So, I am not hopping mad, nor even disappointed I didn't rush out and get this bike, but mildly piqued.
I had a bike I sold for $70, it popped up 100 miles away for $250, it sat on the market for a week, then disappeared. Was it sold for that price? No way to know. Sure, there's dishonest (or wise?) folk out there, who can manipulate the local bike market by posting a very high asking price, then 2 days later pulling their ad, which makes the endeavour look like they're selling higher-end bikes, and getting them sold at the inflated price, when all they are doing is making an attempt to point the buyers towards themselves. Me, when I sell a bike on C/L, I post the word "SOLD" in and edit, and leave the ad up for a couple of days , it's like advertising that I can sell bikes for the cost I advertise them for, then quickly sell them.
03-05-14, 11:59 PM
#43
Junior Member
I am occasional flipper - usually when deal is too good to pass. I try to keep the bikes I like but sometimes it does not work out and I sell them. I am only mad at other flippers when I miss the deal :-) For example this gorgeous Ritchey was posted for $50, ~1 hr drive away from me. I was first in line but could not make it the same day. Well known seller on local CL got it from under my nose for $175. Now it is on our CL for $475 - https://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/bik/4358341353.html. From what I gather (I asked original seller) - he told him he is a collector and offered more. I asked the guy to txt me if anything changes (would have matched $175 offer for sure) but he either did not understand it or did not bother figuring $175 in hands today is better then waiting for tomorrow. Oh well - such is life, you miss some deals and get other
03-06-14, 06:47 AM
#44
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+10 Two times I felt sorry for the buyer and I held the bike. One was a college student. I had ten people that wanted the bike, but I turned them all down, waiting four days for the buyer to show up. He finally shows up, and immediately low balls me, offers me 50% of asking price. I just send him on his way and offer him good luck finding a deal.
The second time, the guy shows up finally, after I turn down at least six others. This guy gives me: "I researched this bike on the web, your asking price is too high. Its only worth 60% of asking price." I am thinking to myself, Buddy, I have sold around 600 bikes, and ten just like this one. I priced this one $50 LESS than the last exact same model last fall, but I priced this one LOW as it is off season. I just tell him my price is FIRM, as I have several others that want it. I should have loaded up the bike right then. So he offers me 70% of my asking price. "Price is firm." 75% "PRice is firm". And so on, up we go. He gets within $10, and tells me: "You are going to walk for $10?" I am thinking, I am not walking over $10, I am walking because you are an as@hol#. HE ends up giving me full price.
+10 To below, bartering over the phone or email. At best, it only commits the seller. A lot of those buyers never show, even after they "agree" to a price. Heck, we get a lot of that crap here in the forum: "I got the seller to agree to my offer of $200, is it a good deal?" Buddy, you already made the freakin offer, is your word worth anything or not? Invariably, someone will chime in "thats too high for that bike", at which the OP replies back: "Thanks, you helped me avoid a mistake!" Huh???? You talked down the seller to a number, got the seller to agree. Keep your word, and go pay for the bike. If you offered too much, treat it as tuition. You learned in the future, research the value of something BEFORE you make an offer, whether it is a car, house, bicycle or whatever. If you do not do that research realize you will at times overpay for items.
The second time, the guy shows up finally, after I turn down at least six others. This guy gives me: "I researched this bike on the web, your asking price is too high. Its only worth 60% of asking price." I am thinking to myself, Buddy, I have sold around 600 bikes, and ten just like this one. I priced this one $50 LESS than the last exact same model last fall, but I priced this one LOW as it is off season. I just tell him my price is FIRM, as I have several others that want it. I should have loaded up the bike right then. So he offers me 70% of my asking price. "Price is firm." 75% "PRice is firm". And so on, up we go. He gets within $10, and tells me: "You are going to walk for $10?" I am thinking, I am not walking over $10, I am walking because you are an as@hol#. HE ends up giving me full price.
+10 To below, bartering over the phone or email. At best, it only commits the seller. A lot of those buyers never show, even after they "agree" to a price. Heck, we get a lot of that crap here in the forum: "I got the seller to agree to my offer of $200, is it a good deal?" Buddy, you already made the freakin offer, is your word worth anything or not? Invariably, someone will chime in "thats too high for that bike", at which the OP replies back: "Thanks, you helped me avoid a mistake!" Huh???? You talked down the seller to a number, got the seller to agree. Keep your word, and go pay for the bike. If you offered too much, treat it as tuition. You learned in the future, research the value of something BEFORE you make an offer, whether it is a car, house, bicycle or whatever. If you do not do that research realize you will at times overpay for items.
I was selling a bike and I had a buyer who seemed weird on the phone. He was oddly insistent on when he wanted to pick up the bike and I reluctantly agreed to 7pm. I had a date that night and told him it was cutting it close, he needed to be on time and remember to compensate for Philly traffic. 7:15 - no buyer, no call, he's not answering my call, I figure he flaked out. I left for the date.
Hours later, after dinner, we're having coffee at her place across town - he calls, he's at my place. I tell him go away and hang up. He keeps calling. I ignore the calls. My land lord calls and says he's being loud - can I please deal with it. I leave - pissed. He must have called 10 times in the 5 mile ride to my place. I get there breathing fire...he instantly turns apologetic. I get the bike - he starts to lowball me. I don't remember the actual numbers, but let's just say asking price was $100. He offers 50.
I'm ticked. I had to leave a romantic evening because of a land lord complaint, he's hours late - and he's low balling. I tell him he's a jack ass and a moron. The bike is now $120 and either the cash is in my hand or I leave. If I get another call, I call the police. He hands me 100 and begs me to wait, he's running to an ATM. I tell him now it's $130 and after 10 minutes it's 140. He runs to an ATM, comes back, hands me 140, throws it in his decrepit truck and drives away at about 2x speed limit. I ride to a supermarket, buy flowers and chocolates with the extra 40 and ride back to her place.
03-06-14, 07:11 AM
#45
Senior Member
He does have lots of nice stuff and probably bike shop owner (he has lots of new bikes as well and often sells them just under msrp). But he also flips a lot of bikes - I think majority of "I am collector, pay cash" ads are his.
03-06-14, 07:31 AM
#46
Senior Member
+1 holding bikes doesn't pay.
The last time I went to visit my in-laws out of State I brought a project bike with me in the car. Restored the bike in my wife's parents garage the first couple days I was there and decided to put it up on the local Craigslist to see if I could make a little profit. A guy called pretty much right away, asked a few question and say's he wants it, consider it sold. But he's out of town and won't be back until the day before I am leaving (it was the holiday's everybody is traveling). Ok, I agree to hold it, partly because that would give me something to ride on my vacation and partly because I am always glad to sell to somebody who will appreciate the work I put into a bike and he seemed excited about it. Long story short, he contacted me several times through out the week reassuring me he wanted it and I believed him. I turned away several other potential buyers, he didn't come through, never showed up and didn't return my call the day before I was leaving. I didn't have room in the car for the bike as my family had accumulated a bunch of stuff and I had to leave the bike, eventually my wife's parents came to visit and brought it with them but it was big hassle, all because I was trying to do a stranger a favor.
That said I have told a couple sellers to consider bikes sold, and I make darn sure that if give my word on that, I'm buying the bike. The only way I would go back on my word is if I arrived and found the frame to be cracked or found out that the buyer had substantially deceived me in some way.
The last time I went to visit my in-laws out of State I brought a project bike with me in the car. Restored the bike in my wife's parents garage the first couple days I was there and decided to put it up on the local Craigslist to see if I could make a little profit. A guy called pretty much right away, asked a few question and say's he wants it, consider it sold. But he's out of town and won't be back until the day before I am leaving (it was the holiday's everybody is traveling). Ok, I agree to hold it, partly because that would give me something to ride on my vacation and partly because I am always glad to sell to somebody who will appreciate the work I put into a bike and he seemed excited about it. Long story short, he contacted me several times through out the week reassuring me he wanted it and I believed him. I turned away several other potential buyers, he didn't come through, never showed up and didn't return my call the day before I was leaving. I didn't have room in the car for the bike as my family had accumulated a bunch of stuff and I had to leave the bike, eventually my wife's parents came to visit and brought it with them but it was big hassle, all because I was trying to do a stranger a favor.
That said I have told a couple sellers to consider bikes sold, and I make darn sure that if give my word on that, I'm buying the bike. The only way I would go back on my word is if I arrived and found the frame to be cracked or found out that the buyer had substantially deceived me in some way.
Last edited by turky lurkey; 03-06-14 at 07:34 AM.
03-06-14, 07:44 AM
#47
Senior Member
That said I have told a few couple to consider bikes sold, and I make darn sure that if give my word on that, I'm buying the bike. The only way I would go back on my word is if I arrived and found the frame to be cracked or found out that the buyer had substantially deceived me in some way.
One other time I had set of fenders for sale - just wanted to get rid of them. After several tire kicker did not show up I got email from nice fella - he got to my house on his bike and I see right away that fenders won't work for him (too wide for his frame). I also noticed that bike is used daily and would benefit from getting rear brake to work (was missing cable) and couple of other things. Did it for him on the spot and told him how to take at least minimum care of the bike. He was very grateful, asked me how much I want for the job I did - of course I told him it is free and wished him to ride safe.
But it is very rare to meet folks like that - most of the time just normal transaction and occasional jackass here and there
03-06-14, 09:49 AM
#48
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Since I've been selling through CL, when asked to hold the bike in person, by email or by phone, I would say the bikes is still for sale until someone come's along and gives me the cash. Somehow the true buyer will find the time to come over and make the purchase. Some will go so far as to suggest leaving a good faith deposit through their Paypal account, which I tell them if there's no show no deposit refund. Only if the individual is not pleased in person will I return their deposit in cash. The primary reason is that by saying you will hold the bike, gives them more time to shop, thinking if all else the bike you have will still be available. The secondary reason for not holding is to prompt the buyer to come over to see the bike. I don't play the game of having people coming over and bidding on a bike that some sellers play.
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03-06-14, 10:12 AM
#49
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If someone asks if I can hold a bike, I just tell them that I'm going to sell the bike to the first person who comes with cash. I just say that I'll keep them in the loop and send an email to tell them if it's sold or not. I am not moved by emails with stories, excuses, or BS. I prefer to deal with people who do what they say they'll do. If you're not coming over today or tomorrow, don't bother, I'm not listening.
03-06-14, 10:13 AM
#50
Constant tinkerer
I go by the same policy. The bike goes to the first buyer that puts cash in my hand. Simple, no hassle. I do not hold (ok, I've made a couple exceptions over the years), and I do not pull ads. Using this policy I very rarely get burned, but of course there is still some time wasted with no-shows, etc.
I do the same thing when buying. I was interested in a set of wheels but I was out of town. Seller asked me if I wanted him to hold them. I said no, if you sell them you sell them. If not I'll take a look at them when I get back. Turned out they had a Campy freehub which I could not use (seller was clueless about this) so I did not feel bad not buying them weeks after the initial contact.
I do the same thing when buying. I was interested in a set of wheels but I was out of town. Seller asked me if I wanted him to hold them. I said no, if you sell them you sell them. If not I'll take a look at them when I get back. Turned out they had a Campy freehub which I could not use (seller was clueless about this) so I did not feel bad not buying them weeks after the initial contact.
Last edited by FastJake; 03-06-14 at 10:16 AM.