RoadGuy

Gone but not forgotten...

Recently the owner of this Specialized A1 deleted his posts (but not the thread) that he started while looking for a Buyer/Validation for he he considered to be a reasonable amount for a Specialized A1 that he was interested in selling.

He was evasive about posting photos of the bike, and defensive when he asked about the value, and nobody would support what he considered to be a reasonable price. The bike was dirty, worn looking, had old tires, and missing some original parts. In fact in his last photos, before deleting his posts, he showed the latest photos of the bike and he removed the original handlebar stem, and substituted a ridiculously short reach aftermarket stem.

I was surfing eBay, and look what I found...

Specialized A1 Aluminum Road Bike 55cm Full RSX STI Shifters Mint Condition | eBay

Yep, the same bike with the same old tires, and the same ridiculously short handlebar stem.

Seller describes the bike as "...professionally tuned and overhauled..." and in mint condition.

Opening Asking Price is $400 (more than $100 more than everybody told him it was worth). No Bidders yet.

Some of you may remember this same guy asking about the value of an Trek carbon bike (5200) he was thinking about buying. Yep, he has it for sale with a Opening Asking Price of $899 (everyone told him it was worth $500-$600).

www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-5200-Full-Ultegra-54-cm-Carbon-Fiber-Road-Bike-in-Excellent-Condition-/141522482578?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item20f365b592

He has other stuff for sale (do you recall him asking about a Vitus 979, or some wheels with Mavic rims?) and it all similarly overpriced.

joe englert

Some people are not realistic. Those bikes are only worth a fraction of his opening bids.. Well, he does have to pay to put them on ebay. I would only pay maybe 200 for the aluminum perhaps 300 for the other...that is top dollar. In fact, I have purchased those same bikes for that price several times over the years. All on craigslist. They are good bikes for the money for the person looking to get into road cycling for a very low price. Much better than putting out a grand for a new entry level bike if your not sure your going to be riding much or not. I would use them for rainy day bikes. I think I ended up just using them for a while and then selling them for a break even price or in some cases, I would use the parts off of them for another bike. I doubt if that guy will sell them on ebay. Too many better deals out there right now.

TugaDude

He originally thought the A1 was steel until I corrected him.

oddjob2

Well we doubted miamijim on his Centurion Ironman, but he got his price!

repechage

This happens from time to time here, usually with a new or few post member. The folk here are generally helpful but as a group seem to flush out disingenuine inquiries and obviously don't like trolls. The cost of a reasonably open and engaging net niche.

Folk who are way off base don't end up selling their stuff. From time to time I have things reappear in the market long after the first attempt and either they face the market realities, the market meets their expectations or keep the goods. Some folk are persistent enough to help move the market their way, the price of Cinelli quilted top saddles I am sure has been benefited in some measure by those wishing to get four figures for theirs.

DMC707

Don't like it, don't buy it it's that simple.
I see a 20-year-old specialized that is pretty clean for its age, and an OCLV Trek that does not look abused---- The seller may not want to just give his stuff away to professional Craigslist lurkers for pennies.
A lot of people on this board seem to judge value by what they once purchased something for at a garage sale or the flea market.
The market will bear what the market will bear and if not he will have to lower his price or hold onto it.

RoadGuy

You didn't follow any of these guy's requests for valuation/information/assistance did you? The photos he posted here of the bikes were not clean, and the bikes did not look well maintained. Heck, they weren't even clean when he finally posted photos of the actual bike (initially the photos posted were not even the bikes that he was asking about).

CliffordK

A little high on some of his prices, but not too far from what I might see as asking prices on Craigslist for similar bikes (although not necessarily sale prices).

It never hurts to dream big.

Also, it doesn't hurt to start high, then reduce prices later... although I will loose interest quickly when some sellers put a reserve on their auctions (these seem to have a high starting price, but no reserve).

Often auctions that start at $1 will go up quickly in the last few seconds of frantic bidding, but will occasionally slip by for a song.

FarHorizon

eBay sellers are hoping that skyrocketing prices for new bikes will also raise prices for used ones. And to some extent, they're right. 1970's and 1980's bikes are now selling for more than they cost new. OTOH, there are always bargains to be picked up at garage sales and on CraigsList. The bottom line is that the bike is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. And there are lots of intangibles that go into that equation - Maybe the buyer had always lusted after that bike when young, but couldn't afford it until now... Maybe the buyer owned one like that years ago and has always regretted selling it...

Ultimately, the gentleman who spoke up earlier and said "Don't like the price? Don't buy it." is exactly correct. In any transaction, the item is the seller's. The seller may ask any price they choose. If it doesn't sell, then maybe the seller learns something (or maybe not). What all of us in the peanut gallery think of the transaction (or lack of) is completely academic. It's ultimately "none of our business."

DMC707

I didnt see any of that admittedly --i am mostly hanging out lurking/posting in the track racing area ---- I only came here in the last couple of days seeking info on how to price my own pile 'a bolts .

That said -- regardless of past posts from this seller --- (heck maybe he has a buddy who works at a bike shop feeding hime more info also) --- he put it on the 'Bay and its survival of the fittest from that point on

mstateglfr 

It can be had for $450 at cheapest. I buy in the Chicago market(ships from) at times each year and keep up on it a lot- that is high for Chicago and high for where I am.
As for your comment that people base pricing off what they bought a bike for at a garage sale or flea market- yes those are incredibly low, but they are still part of what helps determine a price. Prices are based on both what the market has allowed for in the recent past as well as current interest and competition. Those 3 things heavily determine cost in real time. Garage sale and flea market bikes are part of that.

bikemig 

There's a lot of dead inventory out there. It's not like a real business where prices are cut until the market clears. There is very little overhead with used bikes. The bikes I see on CL locally are mainly crazy prices and those bikes don't move. Ebay is better if you want a high price but then it had better be a desirable bike. A starting bid of $350 plus $100 shipping for an AL bike and RSX components is, IMHO, a pretty undesirable bike. $450 assumes you get it at the starting bid; the buy it now price is $475 plus $100 shipping.

his bike is a rider, it is not collectible. You can do better at Bikes Direct.

DMC707

Sorry guys didnt know how to multi-quote so i got mstateglfer's in under bikemig's

Just looking at it from a perspective of a guy that does far more riding than speculating , i look at "garage sale" type pricing as much more an anomol;y, and not a part of the legitimate market for anything.
There are plenty of stories of people buying late model automobiles for low $$ from , say, servicemen deploying overseas --I bought my Jeep Wrangler for $4000 under just such a circumstance, -- and recently, a young widow sold me some firearms at an alarmingly low price because she didnt want them in the house anymore -- i offered to help her sell them for market value through other sources so she could get more money, but she declined ----- There are not many $4000 Jeeps or $100 S&W revolvers out there ---- Those 2 cases are an anomoly and cannot be considered part of decent market pricing

---- Someone in the thread said that OCLV Trek could be had for $300 ??? -- Show me the way -- LOL I dont need the bike, but a full 9 speed Ultegra build kit would be handy to build up my time trial bike project or something like that -- as i dont want to spend $2500 on a parts kit for a bike i will use 10 times a year at most

Seeing a decent aluminum bike for 2-300 bucks is not that far fetched admittedly -- i procured a decent rainy day bike last year (A 2.8 series Cannondale Criterium) for $225 and a late model ladies specific Scott Speedster for $375

I admit I would have a hard time spending $575 for a 20 year old aluminum Specialized as well, but to compare it to stuff from Bikes Direct? Come on

For $575 you would get an older Specialized you could still line up in a Citizens/Cat 5 crit and be confident that the bike wouldnt be something thats holding you back --Same goes for my $225 Cannondale too , but i can't say the same thing for my wife's Scott - the component spec is similar to a $6-700 Bikes Direct bike and it is most definitely not race ready , its a sunny day bike path cruiser
-- And i dont know if the guy put in an "OBO" clause in his ad, but you might get it cheaper than that --- not saying its worth that much to me, but it may be worth that much to somebody else as an alternative to an off the shelf entry level racing oriented bike from the dealership at $1500 bucks -- Although heaven forbid you flat out and need neutral support with a 7 speed wheel , although i can say the same thing about 9 speed stuff now too


edit: just looked at his ad again -- Didnt realize the RSX bike was a triple -- still a decent rig for $350 if one could get it at the opening bid price- but not really a budget racer either, Although i suspect you could procure a close ratio rear cassette fairly cheap
-- shipping just flat kills these lower dollar ebay deals though

RoadGuy

You're saying that Craigslist Prices are an anomolly? Craigslist and eBay are facts of life. As long as you can buy something from a Craigslist Seller for cash, on the same day, for less money, and there is the major advantage of being able to inspect before paying, Craigslist will remain a better alternative to eBay.

Did you look at the Trek 5200? It's advertised as a 54cm frame, with a measured 54cm top tube. Did you notice how the ad doesn't state the seat tube measurement or how the frame was sized? To me, it looks more like a 52cm frame. $800? If you read the Seller's BF posts and looked at the photos of the bikes that he posted here, you would not be interested in buying them.

The weeks that the seller posted on BF, they were actually two Trek 5200s advertised on the local Craigslist (between $275-$400) here, and more advertised on eBay in the same price range. With cash in hand, I think you could actually visit Craigslist Sellers, and buy more Trek 5200s at $300, than you have space to store them.

I'm pretty sure the Seller is still trolling BF in Steath Mode, because shortly after I started this thread, the Opening Asking Prices for his bike dropped. Vitus 979 $450 (was $500), Specialized A1 $350 (was $400), and Trek 5200 $800 (was $900). The fact is, there are no Bids, and no one "Watching" these auctions. If anyone had any interested in Bidding, after looking, they would have tagged the auctions to watch.

It costs nothing to list an item on eBay for sale now. Once upon a time (when the Seller Fees were lower) there was a Listing Fee that depended on the Opening Asking Price (high price costed more to list), and a separate final valuation fee (a percentage of the final auction or selling price. Sellers did not want to list at too high a price because the listing fee would eat into the sale price and the longer it took to sell, the smaller the profit on the sale. With the current deal, a Seller can list forever at whatever price he chooses, and doesn't pay until the item sells. If the Seller can afford to wait, he can list for free, and wait until a Sucker comes along.

Just because an item lists at a high price, does not mean that it's going to sell.... ever at that price. If you want to look at realistic prices, look at the completed and ended auctions to see how many are selling, and what they are selling for. To be fair, look for bikes the same age (with the same construction) and the same size. The 5200 model name as been used since the early 1990s, and there have been several generations of the model and they have different features.

mstateglfr 

I could see garage sale bikes being considered the outlier price, sure. I could also see some final sale prices on eBay being outliers on the other end of the spectrum. I am at times shocked at how much a bike sells for on eBay.

CliffordK

Ahhh... Dang, and those Garmin Vectors that were sold on E-Bay for $100... I thought that is about what they were worth!!! Anybody have some for sale?

I'll say that bike pricing is a bit funky.

Somebody posted a link to an older Colnago Super Frame for $500. Yes, it is a nice frame, but it is just a bare frame for more than you're giving someone crap about trying to sell a full bike that is 10 years newer for. Perhaps a bit of a mystique with the old Colnagos, but they are just old steel bikes (yes, I have and ride one that has lost much of its magic).

I rarely see a good CF bike for sale for less than $1000. It was a bit dated, but still a solid all Ultegra bike. One could get many miles out of it.

9s? Do you really need more gears? Lower gears?

zazenzach

ebay can be a great alternative for people in very hot markets or with no markets at all.

i live in a big cycling area and my local craigslist sees rediculous asking prices. most times, its much cheaper to buy something off the 'bay even with the shipping and sellers fees padded into the price.

And with an aluminum fork, I would be dubious of either.

mstateglfr 

That is cheap for the product, it looks like.
Good point.

I have also seen Sun tour cable guides with a buy now price of $20. I can get 10 of them in excellent shape at my local collective for $3 each.

Barcons are just hilarious to watch- the buy now prices are all over the place with many in triple digits thru the year.
SR cranksets have been great to watch recently- less than full actual sets listed for $90 plus shipping.

Agree on the Colnago frame, it'd be cool to have one and build it up to be period correct. Speaking of- the Campy stuff on eBay is even more over the top than anything I've mentioned.

mstateglfr 

Wow, it a too bad that prices aren't lower in the big cycling area. More inventory and all. More demand too, sure.

RoadGuy

Ever attend a live auction for anything?

Unprepared/inexperienced/unknowledgeable Bidders get swept up in the heat of the moment and bid ridiculous sums of money for worthless items and items they could buy in a store, brand-new for less. Auctioneers feed/wind up the spectators/attendees before and during the auction to keep the "fever" going, and the inexperienced bidding.

eBay works the same way. Inexperienced Bidders/Buyers getting fixated on the target, and forgetting the objective.

For that reason alone, I consider Craigslist to be a more true market where prices are closer to true value. Sellers list their items for what they would like to sell for, and Buyers buy at prices they are willing to pay. A Buyer buying/dealing local on Craigslist isn't getting taken as long as he agrees on the price, and is not getting something stolen, broken, misrepresented, or a counterfeit. With eBay, the Buyer doesn't know whether he is going to get anything for the money he pays, until the box arrives (or doesn't) and he/she opens it to see what the Seller sent.

I've purchased three Shimano cassettes from eBay Sellers in the past few months, and when they arrived, two of the three cassettes were SRAM, not Shimano. I won the auction for a Shimano 105 front derailleur, got stuck $10 for shipping ($5 would have gotten it delivered by USPS Priority Mail, instead it came by USPS Snail Mail), and when I got it, found out that someone bent/modified the cage (the plier teeth marks are clearly visible on the cage when inspecting it in person). That was never described in the eBay ad as a problem, and I have a slight shifting problem (shifts take more effort than they should). If the Seller had described the cage as being bent or modified, I would not have bought it. I could have ordered a new derailleur of the same model for about $6 more.

Which brings me to another observation I've made over the years buying from eBay. Sellers who set very high shipping charges often deliver junk parts. Shipping charges are not refundable in many cases, so if you reject an inferior item, and you return the item at your expense, the Seller still makes a profit off you, and gets to resell the item. Years ago, on eBay I won the bid for a used stainless steel exhaust system for a VW, including about a $75 fee for shipping. I received the exhaust system in a box about 20" long. It was rusty mild steel, it wouldn't come apart at the slip joints, and the Seller cut it into 18"' sections so it would fit in a box that he had. The shipping label showed that he had paid about $20 for shipping the box.

Steve Whitlatch 

We want to buy our bikes from stupid people that do not know the value of the bike they sell. We want to sell our bikes for fair market value. We think people who pay full market value for a bike are stupid for not finding bikes being sold by stupid people who do not know the value of the bike they are selling. It`s simple.

FarHorizon

@Steve Whitlatch -

You sound like a true "Classic & Vintage" forum member! LOL

Stucky

Who does he think is going to buy that bike at that price? It's not old enough/special enough to hold any real vintage appeal; It's not modern enough to any utilitarian appeal. It's just an old bike- and such a bike's only appeal is economic- in that when they can be had cheaply, they provide adequate recreation/transportation to those who can not afford better. At his price, the economic appeal is even lost- so what's left? Just an old over-priced bike, whose only prospect for a sale is if someone who is in the market for a bike and who doesn't know any better happens across it.

I don't even look on Ebay anymore. It's become a cesspool of over-priced junk- and the excessive fees that they charge sellers no, coupled with the risk of fraud (which Ebay enables, by always siding with the buyer) guarantees that such will continue to be the case until and if Ebay changes it's ways.

Stucky

The ULTIMATE in ridiculously over-priced Ebay bikes- The guy has had this on Ebay incessantly for two-and-a-half years, that I am aware of- probably longer!

Klein Quantum Pro 1995 Burgundy Blue Campagnolo Record Titanium Ringle Oh Yeah | eBay

howsteepisit

same guy has a colnago for over 22 grand.