Bits and Pieces for old French bicycles
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Bits and Pieces for old French bicycles
We all try our very hardest to keep bicycles of any age, especially vintage models, hopefully roadworthy so that they can be ridden and enjoyed by all. Also to preserve them for future generations, who might well appreciate in the first instance, the design and then the manufacturing processes of all the different types and makes of bicycle worldwide.
Many items can be found on the various eBay sites and other Internet sites but there always remains certain items that are not generally offered for sale. Probably these items are considered to be of no interest to anyone, or perhaps their value is thought to be virtually nil and therefore "not worth the bother."
With this feeling in mind, I am trying to locate and hopefully purchase, a lock-ring for a very old French bicycle's bottom bracket right-hand bearing cup.
I have measured the diameter over the threads on the cupand it is approximately 38.5 mm. Stamped on the cup face is 39, so I presume that is the thread size. The thickness of the lock-ring I presume, would be 3 to 4 mm.
I appreciate that this is like looking for the needle in the haystack, but if anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful and I would certainly be prepared to have one specially made - I'm that desperate !
Many items can be found on the various eBay sites and other Internet sites but there always remains certain items that are not generally offered for sale. Probably these items are considered to be of no interest to anyone, or perhaps their value is thought to be virtually nil and therefore "not worth the bother."
With this feeling in mind, I am trying to locate and hopefully purchase, a lock-ring for a very old French bicycle's bottom bracket right-hand bearing cup.
I have measured the diameter over the threads on the cupand it is approximately 38.5 mm. Stamped on the cup face is 39, so I presume that is the thread size. The thickness of the lock-ring I presume, would be 3 to 4 mm.
I appreciate that this is like looking for the needle in the haystack, but if anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful and I would certainly be prepared to have one specially made - I'm that desperate !
#2
Aspiring curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 2,486
Bikes: Guerciotti, Serotta, Gaulzetti
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times
in
13 Posts
That might be very tough. If you can't find one, VO makes a nicely priced French threaded cartridge BB.
Grand Cru Bottom Bracket, French Thread - Bottom Brackets - Components
Grand Cru Bottom Bracket, French Thread - Bottom Brackets - Components
__________________
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
But typical "French threaded" stuff, including the V-O bottom bracket, is meant for a 35 mm bottom bracket shell. I'm not familiar with older French stuff in the 38-39 range. Maybe you could use some help from guys who are into "antique" versus "classic & vintage" -- have you tried the forums over at thecabe.com?
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,826 Times
in
1,994 Posts
But typical "French threaded" stuff, including the V-O bottom bracket, is meant for a 35 mm bottom bracket shell. I'm not familiar with older French stuff in the 38-39 range. Maybe you could use some help from guys who are into "antique" versus "classic & vintage" -- have you tried the forums over at thecabe.com?
#5
Rider
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 142
Bikes: 1961 Mercier, 1968 Chiorda, 1992 KHS Summit
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If all else fails a machine shop could probably fabricate something like that without difficulty, I recently had one make a spindle for me when it was to hard to find one with the right dimensions
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Typical French threading is 35 mm. If he measured 38.5 or 39 mm and that measurement is accurate, it's not typical French threading.
I just measured my French threaded 1970s Peugeot for sale of comparison. The diameter of the bottom bracket, measured at the threads, is 35 mm. The exterior of the frame's bottom bracket shell is just shy of 39.5 mm.
I just measured my French threaded 1970s Peugeot for sale of comparison. The diameter of the bottom bracket, measured at the threads, is 35 mm. The exterior of the frame's bottom bracket shell is just shy of 39.5 mm.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times
in
27 Posts
I think French cups are still avaialble for Phil Wood BB cartridges. Pricey, (at least 120 - 140 bucks), but it's good quality stuff.....
#8
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,842
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2295 Post(s)
Liked 2,042 Times
in
1,251 Posts
I've got a large collection of old lockrings of various sizes. I might get around to sorting thru them after Easter for you.
#9
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Hello and thank you all for your interest. In my opinion the BOULIN frame dates from the early twentieth century or even slightly earlier. Despite my hours of research, I've found nothing about this manufacturer.
If anyone has a lock-ring with these dimensions to spare, I'd be so grateful to buy it, because I've been quoted over £100 to have one machined in mild steel, as a one-off !
If anyone has a lock-ring with these dimensions to spare, I'd be so grateful to buy it, because I've been quoted over £100 to have one machined in mild steel, as a one-off !
#10
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,842
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2295 Post(s)
Liked 2,042 Times
in
1,251 Posts
Sorry, I measured all of my lockrings, nothing that big. You'll likely have to source that from France.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Congrats! Now for those of us who are curious, did you find out what the bottom bracket type/size/threading actually is?
#14
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Thank you for your continuing interest.
Like the frame itself, the bottom bracket is a complete mystery. The left-hand threading is 39 x 1 mm and believe it or not, the right-hand threading is 40 x 1 mm, as per the photo.
The width of the bottom bracket casting is 75 mm. It has two brass oilers on the top and a brass "drain plug" on the underneath.
The very nice young guy who machined the lock-ring for me, has since machined in stainless steel, a bearing race for the front forks - photo attached.
He produced these items almost the same day and he will attempt anything. I have seen his superb live steam models - fabulous workmanship [I dabbled myself many years ago !].
I stripped the frame and treated it with Kurust, which reacted with the acrylic spray paint, so I've had to strip it again and start from a bare frame.
What has given me encouragement is the Boulin gold decal for the down tube, which I've had professionally produced - whether it's correct or appropriate is no doubt debatable, but it's OK by me. The font letters have peculiar projections mid-height and these actually match similar projections on the head tube Boulin badge. I found the font type.
Now, where have I seen cord handlebar grips before ?! I think the cord was glued on with the start wedged in the end with a bottle cork and the other end trapped in the brake lever clamp. I might have a go at reproducing the old 1900's racers' cord grips, using "picture" hanging cord !
Who was that Monsieur Boulin from Briare ? Stranger and stranger !
Like the frame itself, the bottom bracket is a complete mystery. The left-hand threading is 39 x 1 mm and believe it or not, the right-hand threading is 40 x 1 mm, as per the photo.
The width of the bottom bracket casting is 75 mm. It has two brass oilers on the top and a brass "drain plug" on the underneath.
The very nice young guy who machined the lock-ring for me, has since machined in stainless steel, a bearing race for the front forks - photo attached.
He produced these items almost the same day and he will attempt anything. I have seen his superb live steam models - fabulous workmanship [I dabbled myself many years ago !].
I stripped the frame and treated it with Kurust, which reacted with the acrylic spray paint, so I've had to strip it again and start from a bare frame.
What has given me encouragement is the Boulin gold decal for the down tube, which I've had professionally produced - whether it's correct or appropriate is no doubt debatable, but it's OK by me. The font letters have peculiar projections mid-height and these actually match similar projections on the head tube Boulin badge. I found the font type.
Now, where have I seen cord handlebar grips before ?! I think the cord was glued on with the start wedged in the end with a bottle cork and the other end trapped in the brake lever clamp. I might have a go at reproducing the old 1900's racers' cord grips, using "picture" hanging cord !
Who was that Monsieur Boulin from Briare ? Stranger and stranger !
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hheilig
Bicycle Mechanics
18
05-19-15 10:00 AM
Charles Wahl
Classic & Vintage
36
08-15-11 08:38 PM